Subject: Senator Van.
E&OE
NEIL MITCHELL:
Opposition Leader Peter Dutton, good morning.
PETER DUTTON:
Good morning Neil.
NEIL MITCHELL:
I know there’s no names, but you’ve said there’s a third case. Does that involve a Member of Parliament or a staff member?
PETER DUTTON:
Neil, I’m just not going to go into the details. I think in the circumstances, particularly where somebody doesn’t want their name mentioned, or aired publicly, lots of speculation around and the rest of it, I’m just not adding to that.
I made a decision to ask Senator Van to leave the Liberal Party Party Room. I thought it was the right decision in the circumstances and with the information I had available, and I don’t regret that decision at all.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Well true, but I mean it is very, very important. If it’s a staff member, it’s on a whole different level. If it’s a staff member compared to a Member of Parliament.
PETER DUTTON:
It’s been referred to the appropriate authority for investigation. I’m not a judge and jury, and as you point out, Senator Van protests his innocence here in relation to the separate allegations that have been made, and from me, I’ve wanted to be very clear that conduct that was alleged to have taken place was totally unacceptable, and when I found out about the information I acted on it.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Well, you’re not a judge and jury, but you’ve executed him in terms of the Liberal Party parliamentary party.
PETER DUTTON:
Well, I’ve made a decision that he doesn’t represent our values and…
NEIL MITCHELL:
Well, that means you’re convicting him.
PETER DUTTON:
…as you’d expect in the Liberal Party…
NEIL MITCHELL:
By definition you’re convicting him.
PETER DUTTON:
Well, there’s a legal process to go through in relation to allegations. I’m not convicting anyone in relation to those matters. So that’s obviously a separate process, but I have authority as the Leader of the Party to make those decisions. I made that decisions when it came to my attention, and that’s where we’re at.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Are you willing to say whether this third allegation is historic or recent?
PETER DUTTON:
It’s not recent, and it goes back some time in a similar time period to the other alleged incidents.
NEIL MITCHELL:
And it’s along the lines of these incidents?
PETER DUTTON:
Correct.
NEIL MITCHELL:
So what puzzles me and what worries me a little bit here is that this all becomes very important and there’s public action once it’s known publicly. This must have been common knowledge around the rumour mill in Canberra for years. Hasn’t it been? Did you know about it?
PETER DUTTON:
No, I didn’t know about it. It was brought to my attention – not by the person against whom this alleged act was committed – it was brought to my attention by another party. We’ve made contact with the individuals involved, and I think it’s appropriate that there’s an authority that can deal with it…
NEIL MITCHELL:
…but that sort of underlines my point though, somebody has come to and said, ‘oh you know, about this case?’. I mean it’s been common knowledge around, I would suggest and I’ll be astounded if it hasn’t been fairly common knowledge that these allegations were there around Canberra, but nothing was done until now, when Lidia Thorpe stands up.
PETER DUTTON:
Well, in relation to Amanda Stoker – and she’s issued a statement in the last 24 hours to say that she addressed it at the time – she didn’t want to make a complaint, she didn’t want it to go any further, and she was satisfied with the way in which she dealt with it.
So, individuals can make decisions about whether they want to…
NEIL MITCHELL:
Yeah, true.
PETER DUTTON:
…make a complaint to the police or whether for their own privacy, they don’t want it aired publicly. I mean that’s part of a respectful process and people make their decisions based on their own interests.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Was the previous leadership aware of it?
PETER DUTTON:
I don’t know Neil. It’s a matter that was dealt with at the time and in relation to the movement of Senator Van’s office, as I said yesterday, I didn’t know about that at the time, I wasn’t party to that, but it was done to the satisfaction of Senator Thorpe and the leadership – the Senate leadership of the Greens – and that it was dealt with appropriately from the advice I’ve received, and that matter was settled at that point as well.
NEIL MITCHELL:
I find it extraordinary the Greens knew, Senator Thorpe knew, Amanda Stoker knew, and the Liberal Party didn’t?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, again Neil, nobody’s saying that the details weren’t known, they were acted on…
NEIL MITCHELL:
Well they weren’t acted on, well, they’re being acted on more seriously now, aren’t they? Why now? Why? Because it’s public.
PETER DUTTON:
Well, the most important point I want to make, I’m happy to sort of go into as much detail as I can.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Yep.
PETER DUTTON:
The most important detail I think that we need to remind ourselves of is that Parliament House, when Parliament’s sitting, is filled with, I don’t know, a couple of thousand people from all over the country – staffers and advisers, people in the press gallery, etc., etc – we’re talking about one per cent here; we’re talking about 99 per cent of good people from all sides of politics who are there to do the right thing by our country, by their constituents, and the thing that saddens me – and there are many parts of these sort of stories that are distressing and upsetting – the sad part is that people in the building are tainted – and people like all of the salacious detail – but in the end people are in that building to do the right thing by their country.
NEIL MITCHELL:
No, no. I don’t it’s to do with salacious detail. It’s to do with a group of people in Canberra who say they are leading us with decency, honesty and integrity…
PETER DUTTON:
And they are.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Well, there’s not only a degree of sleaziness alleged here, but maybe, who knows, even cover up. In that it only becomes to get seriously addressed – as you’re doing – once it becomes public, and that goes to the credibility of your Party, and if it involves the Labor Party, them as well.
PETER DUTTON:
Well, as Richard Marles pointed out this morning, I mean this is not a Party specific thing and it’s not a workplace specific thing either, Neil. I mean, with respect, the media industry for a long time has had a reputation in relation to the treatment of women, we’ve seen it in the media sector…
NEIL MITCHELL:
I’ll tell you what, if I saw somebody grabbed on the bum at a drinks party, I’d do something about it.
PETER DUTTON:
Well, so would I, and I did within hours it was brought to my attention…
NEIL MITCHELL:
Yeah, years later.
PETER DUTTON:
No, it was brought to my attention the night before last and yesterday morning, and I acted by yesterday afternoon.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Yep. Senator Thorpe says there are other people who’ve done similar, are you aware whether any other Liberals are accused?
PETER DUTTON:
No, I’m not.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Are you aware who is accused?
PETER DUTTON:
No, I’m not.
NEIL MITCHELL:
She also says it’s not safe for women in Parliament House now. Do you think that should be taken seriously?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, of course it should be taken seriously, and I think I’ve expressed very clearly the standard that I expect. I don’t tolerate sexual assault against women. I’ve spent my adult life fighting against that particular crime type, and I find it offensive, egregious, short of murder – which is the most serious criminal offence – sexually assaulting a woman I think is the next in line, and being accused of that, or wrongly accused of that is something obviously that’s very serious as well.
So the rule of law is important in all of this, the presumption of innocence and…
NEIL MITCHELL:
Yes.
PETER DUTTON:
…but in terms of the workplace in Parliament House, I’ve been an employer there for 22 years, and my staff have always known that I would not tolerate a single instance of that type of behaviour toward any staff member in my office.
NEIL MITCHELL:
So, how will you investigate this now? What happens now?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, there’s a parliamentary workplace service that’s been established and they have an investigative capability – so that’s the proper authority to look at all the detail. We’ve given them all of the names and details that we have, they investigate and then they can advise us from there.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Ok, so you don’t investigate at all? It’s all with them?
PETER DUTTON:
I don’t have the ability to investigate and look at records, etc, that’s the purpose of this authority, and they’re independent of the parties and they can look at it in a forensic way.
NEIL MITCHELL:
If anything is wrong is found to have occurred, and Senator Van is, there’s as a finding against him, would you expect him to be thrown out of the Liberal Party?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, it’s an issue for the Victorian division – membership of the Party. My decision, my authority relates to who sits in the Liberal Party Room.
NEIL MITCHELL:
But you’d have a recommendation, you’d have a view on it?
PETER DUTTON:
Of course. Of course, I would…
NEIL MITCHELL:
What is it?
PETER DUTTON:
And I’d express it at the time. So, I’ve made the decision that I need to make now, and I stand by that decision.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Just one last thing. Lidia Thorpe, Senator Thorpe, I interviewed back in April – April 27, and this sort of slipped through a bit at the time, but it’s concerning. This is her on April 27:
[excerpt]
LIDIA THORPE:
I wonder about the mental health of Senators who are staggering around drunk, by themselves, female, at night, where I have to go to their aid to make sure they get back to their hotel safely. That’s a mental health, you know, if we want to talk about mental health, I would question that of a lot of Senators or politicians in this place and not just the little black one all the time.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Are you aware of that?
PETER DUTTON:
No. I’d just make this comment – and the Prime Minister and I have separately made this comment in the past – Senator Thorpe – and it’s been well documented in the papers, her conduct inside and outside of the chamber, does need to seek support. We’ve both made that point very clearly, with all of due respect to her and I think that is good advice to her.
I think Senator Thorpe has lots of issues and, as I say, some of those, and her own conduct, have been well documented. She’s made serious allegations in the Senate this week and she hasn’t provided the names or details of individuals involved. She doesn’t wish to make a complaint to the police, she says she doesn’t want the matters to go further, and in the absence of any detail, it’s hard to just besmirch everybody or without providing details it’s hard to investigate that and provide an outcome.
NEIL MITCHELL:
I thought we would have been thanking Senator Thorpe for raising the situation which has led to a Senator being thrown out of the Parliamentary Liberal Party. I would have thought that she’s been vindicated?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, you’ve just played a part of the interview in April and I’m responding to that.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Do you believe what she’s been saying in the Parliament this week?
PETER DUTTON:
I don’t have any detail of what she’s said…
NEIL MITCHELL:
You sound sceptical? I mean, you’re saying she should get treatment or help, which is what the Prime Minister said last time and it’s just dog-whistling her mental health.
PETER DUTTON:
Well, with respect, it’s not and I think that her activities in nightclubs and others involving alcohol, or whatever it might be, I don’t know – I mean all of that’s been well documented –none of my business, I don’t seek to comment on it. You played the clip, I’ve responded to it and I think people can draw their own conclusions.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Final point if you don’t mind. You mentioned the media. Do you think what’s happening in Canberra at the moment is the real world or is it a bunch of privileged people with too much time in their hands and too much booze? I mean is that really happening in the real world?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, you know the media sector more than me. You could say whether it’s some individuals who conduct themselves like that…
NEIL MITCHELL:
I’ve never seen it.
PETER DUTTON:
…Or whether it’s every journalist. Of course it’s not every journalist and it’s not every politician. People have their own values and that exists wherever humans are in a workplace and there will be people who conduct themselves in an appalling way, and they should be treated accordingly by their boss or by the workplace rules. I think all of that’s obvious.
But to besmirch everybody who works in Parliament House – this is not a partisan thing, it’s not a party thing – there are individuals who need to be held to account for their conduct and their poor behaviour and that’s what I’ve done in relation to the responsibilities that I have.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Thank you so much for your time. Peter Dutton, Federal Opposition Leader, Leader of the Liberal Party.
[ends]