Subjects: Labor’s Jobs and Skills Summit; the union movement; Anthony Albanese’s broken promise on a $275 cut to electricity bills; ministerial appointments; stage three tax cuts; future of the Liberal Party; death of former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev.
LISA MILLAR:
The federal Opposition Leader Peter Dutton, joins us now in the studio. Good morning to you. Welcome to News Breakfast.
PETER DUTTON:
‘Morning Lisa. ‘Morning Michael.
LISA MILLAR:
Is there a risk you’re sort of dealing yourself out of being able to influence IR reforms, what’s discussed, by not turning up? I mean David Littleproud’s going even though he might have low expectations.
PETER DUTTON:
Well Lisa, if I was a union leader I would be certainly well received and probably listened to in a way that business leaders aren’t going to be. Let’s be very clear; the union coverage in the private sector is less than 10 per cent, but at this Summit we have 33 union leaders out of 142 attendees, so there will be a very strong focus on the union movement. Now, that’s the want of the Labor Party, they’re the elected government, that’s fine, but I don’t think for small business people the hopes are very high as to what can be achieved. The ACTU claims around higher taxation, economy wide bargaining which will result in economy wide strikes – it’s not in business interests, it’s not in our economy’s interest, it’s not in the workers’ interests either.
MICHAEL ROWLAND:
You can’t overlook the fact that they have some pretty serious players from the corporate sector involved: the head of BHP, the Telstra chair, the Visy Chair Anthony Pratt, the heads of Woolies and Coles, Andrew Forrest is there. Clearly all of these big players don’t see this as a stunt. Don’t you feel as though you’re missing a great opportunity to at least be part of the conversation?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Michael, I started the conversation back in June when we suggested as a policy – just given the tightness of the labour market now – that we should allow people who are on an Age Pension or Veterans who are on a pension – if they chose to work more hours, they could do that. It’s a ready workforce of literally hundreds of thousands of people.
Now, the government rejected that in June. I think they’ll pick up it in the Summit, I certainly hope they do, because the acute need is there now and it’s only compounded since June. So I thought they could have shown a sign of goodwill in picking that up in June. They could extend it to people on Newstart as well and allow them an opportunity to go and work in aged care or agriculture or tourism, retail, whatever it might be, childcare, where there’s an acute need for workers at the moment.
I hope there’s good that comes from it and I think I’ve demonstrated so far in this role that we will be positive and support good, sensible outcomes, but I’m not going to be part of a political stunt, which I think frankly is more a summit run by the unions and Anthony Albanese is attending, as opposed to the other way round.
LISA MILLAR:
Can I turn to Scott Morrison, the former Prime Minister and these inquiries that are ahead, the Virginia Bell inquiry. Would you like to see him taking part in that and taking part willingly and fully?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, a couple of points here Lisa. Scott did the wrong thing, he admitted that. We’ve got the facts in relation to the matter. The Solicitor-General’s provided advice to the government that there was no illegality there and the Solicitor-General’s gone as far to even provide suggestions about what could resolve it and make sure that it doesn’t happen again.
I think there’s a tipping point here for the Prime Minister, and I think frankly, he went too far, and it’s turned into a political witch-hunt. The outcomes are obvious, and we will support the implementation of those. So, if it turns into a show trial, then I think it’s a politically motivated stunt and it will be treated as such. We’ve offered goodwill to the government, as I say, to support the measures that have been suggested by the Solicitor-General. Let’s see what they offer next, but that’s my approach to it.
MICHAEL ROWLAND:
Separate to the inquiry though, shouldn’t there be serious raised questions about whether the former Prime Minister should stay in Parliament? It was a pretty serious finding against him by the Solicitor-General that these actions were contrary to the principles of responsible government.
PETER DUTTON:
Well Michael, the Solicitor-General found that there was no illegality, there was no personal gain…
MICHAEL ROWLAND:
…yeah absolutely, but…
PETER DUTTON:
There was an error of judgement and…
MICHAEL ROWLAND:
A former Prime Minister not adhering to responsible government is a very serious charge in anybody’s eyes.
PETER DUTTON:
Michael, I suppose, I mean just to put yourself in the moment; when we received the first briefings from the Chief of the Defence Force, the head of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, the head of the Health Department, the Chief Medical Officer etc. I mean they were pretty dire days. The deaths in aged care facilities, what we were seeing in North America, in Asia and elsewhere, and the Prime Minister had a fair weight on his shoulders at the time. There’s no decision that people can point to, to say that ‘here is a gross, an egregious outcome in terms of personal gain.’ That would be a very different scenario.
LISA MILLAR:
So you’re saying there is a justification?
PETER DUTTON:
I think that Scott made the wrong decision and I was very clear about that. Had I been consulted in relation to his decisions, I would have advised him against it. I was clear about that from day one, and equally, we’ve said that we will support the government in sensible suggestions that they’ve got to make sure that it can’t happen again.
MICHAEL ROWLAND:
Have you spoken to him personally about his future in Parliament?
PETER DUTTON:
I’ve had conversations with Scott over a period of time and this is just not something I’m going into, in terms of private those conversations.
MICHAEL ROWLAND:
But, you’re happy for him to stay on as a Liberal MP?
PETER DUTTON:
Yes I am.
MICHAEL ROWLAND:
Do you support your colleague Russell Broadbent when he says the stage three tax cuts should be shelved?
PETER DUTTON:
No, I don’t. There are other Labor members who are making the same suggestion – I don’t support those calls. The government went to an election with a promise, they made a commitment, and they should honour that commitment.
They went with a promise to reduce electricity prices by $275. They spent the whole election campaign talking about that, on 97 occasions they repeated it, and they’ve never mentioned it since the election, so I think that is a significant break of trust with the public.
MICHAEL ROWLAND:
Well, they haven’t broken the promise yet. They were promising to do that by 2025, so by all means level that accusation against them in 2025, but it’s still an active promise.
PETER DUTTON:
You’re an optimistic person Michael, because they’re not going to achieve it. Electricity prices are going the other way, which is a tragedy for families. If they went the next step and broke such a significant promise as the tax cuts, then I think that would be a very significant break of their trust with the public.
LISA MILLAR:
But they were introduced in a different era. It’s what, 2019, isn’t it understandable that people are now saying we need to put this back into the mix.
PETER DUTTON:
No, I don’t think it is because the stages of tax cuts have been carefully calibrated. As we know, in a progressive tax system people will move up through the brackets and under this system, 95 per cent of Australians pay 30 cents or less in the dollar, which is an incentive for people to work more, which is exactly what we need at the moment.
Productivity is down, participation is high, unemployment obviously is at a 50-year low and the fundamentals of our economy are very strong. I think Labor will have to do a lot of bad things over the next three years to send us into recession. It’s obvious that the United States will go into recession and likely the United Kingdom as well. I hope for our country that we can avoid that outcome.
MICHAEL ROWLAND:
Very big news on the front of the Nine newspapers this morning, particularly the Sydney Morning Herald, with leaked documents showing that Liberal Party members in New South Wales were allotted fake email addresses and fake mobile phone numbers as a way of getting around branch stacking rules. What’s your response to that?
PETER DUTTON:
I have complete condemnation for any behaviour like that. I’ve been very clear with the New South Wales division and elsewhere, I want our Party membership to grow. Like any volunteer organisation, political or involved in the community otherwise, it’s difficult to attract people, particularly young people into those volunteer movements and this sort of conduct just makes it harder.
LISA MILLAR:
You’d be looking for a full investigation?
PETER DUTTON:
They’ve already announced that, yes.
MICHAEL ROWLAND:
As you travel round the country, do you concede the Liberal Party brand is pretty much on the nose at the moment? Of course, you suffered the heavy loss in the federal election. The New South Wales Government has been mired, as well as this breaking news in the Barilaro saga. Newspoll suggests Mathew Guy, the Liberal Leader here in Victoria is set for a thumping in November’s election. You’re pulling an approval rating of 17 per cent. Do you concede that you’ve got a long way to go to get the Liberal Party back to electability?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Michael, I’ve been around the Liberal Party, around politics for two decades and I remember the Liberal Party being written off when John Howard lost in 2007, we almost won the election in 2010, we won it eventually in 2013. I remember the Labor Party being written off after Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard – that there was a generation that they would be in the wilderness – and they’re back in government now.
I think a lot of the media speculation is understandable and people love the colour and movement of it. For me, I’ve taken the approach of learning from the four leaders that I’ve served under – those opposite me as well – I have a great deal of respect for somebody like Julia Gillard for example, Kim Beazley. I’ve learnt a lot over that period and I want to put that into action now. I’ve tried to be positive and will continue to be positive where we agree with the government, but an Opposition’s role is to hold the government to account when they get it wrong and also to put together good policy. We have already started that process.
I think you’ll see a very different landscape by the time of 2025 – as you pointed out before – than you are now.
LISA MILLAR:
We’ve just had breaking news while we’ve been on air speaking with you, the former Soviet leader, Mikhail Gorbachev has passed away, we have confirmation that he has died. Any thoughts this morning?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, I mean cast your mind back to his period and the interaction with the West. Obviously, what we’re seeing today is a very different leadership style and role. I think the carnage that we’re seeing in Ukraine is horrific and whilst people will mourn the loss, understandably I think the focus at the moment is on the damage that the current Russian leader is doing. Whilst it’s slipped from the headlines, I think we should really remind ourselves every day that these attacks are still taking place on women and children, on shopping centres, residential buildings etc. And unfortunately, the lessons of the 80s have been lost on somebody like President Putin. I hope that we can return to a more sensible age, but that doesn’t seem possible at the moment, which is a great tragedy.
LISA MILLAR:
Peter Dutton, great to have your company on the couch this morning.
PETER DUTTON:
My pleasure, thank you.
MICHAEL ROWLAND:
You’re welcome back any time.
PETER DUTTON:
Thank you so much.
MICHAEL ROWLAND:
Good to see you.
PETER DUTTON:
Thank you.
[ends]