Subjects: Labor’s millions in donations from the CFMEU; Premier Malinauskas’s return of the CFMEU’s donation; AUKUS; nuclear power.
HOST
We’re joined now by the Leader of the Federal Opposition, Peter Dutton. At a time when FiveAA has been in the absolute thick of the biggest political story in South Australia over the last fortnight, and that is the acceptance and now rejection of a hefty $125,000 donation from Johnny Setka’s Victorian CFMEU branch given to the Labor Party just three days before the state election on March 19. It became a major headache for Peter Malinauskas and I’m sure Mr. Dutton believes it is not over yet. Do you think handing back the money has put an end to this issue, Mr Dutton?
PETER DUTTON
Good morning, gents. Look, I think there was a bad judgement displayed by the Premier in the first instance in taking the donation, but full credit to him for giving it back or for donating it to charity. I just think the activities of the CFMEU set them apart from any other union. The good work that the unions do in a general sense is tarnished by the behaviour of the criminals and thugs within the CFMEU. They’re constantly before the courts and the latest wilful damage to the cars in South Australia is just the latest in a long lineup of actions and activities undertaken…
HOST
We should stress there, sorry to jump in Mr Dutton, we should stress there, they are saying there’s no proof, no evidence that it was them. They’re denying it.
PETER DUTTON
Of course they are, yep. Well, they’ve had the worse run of bad luck I’ve ever heard of if it’s not them because there are plenty of cases where they’ve been through the courts, and I think it’s well documented, particularly by the justices. I mean, don’t listen to the politicians on this, the judges make it very clear that the CFMEU just prices the fines into their business model, and it drives up the cost of construction, and it makes it more expensive for roads to be built, for apartment blocks to be constructed, and that has an inflationary impact in our society and consumers end up paying the price for it.
Of course, at a federal level you’ve got the situation where the Labor Party has taken about $10 million in recent years from the CFMEU and they haven’t shown the same leadership that your Premier has in South Australia. They’ve pocketed the money and to this very day they continue to take money even though they know of the activities of the CFMEU and the lawlessness that takes place.
HOST
I mean, I spoke to one senior Labor person here who said what a pack of geniuses these people are at a time when there’s a federal debate over the abolition of the construction industry watchdog, the Australian Building and Construction Commission, and the type of strong arm tactics that we are seeing, even things like they’re crazy chanting at their meeting where Mr Setka was sworn in as the new State Secretary here in SA. They’re almost like a free ad for the retention of the ABCC.
PETER DUTTON
Well Penbo, I think that’s right. I mean, people just want the unions and employers and employees to conduct themselves according to the law. I mean, that’s all we’re asking for here. But there are literally thousands of allegations and charges that have been brought against the CFMEU over a long period of time and their conduct is really endorsed when the Labor Party takes donations from them. The fact that the Labor Party accept these huge donations and then at the federal level as one of their first acts when they were returned to government in May, was to announce the abolition of the Australian building construction watchdog. And the whole idea of the watchdog is to not have a situation on building sites where, you know, the concrete trucks are about to turn up for a pour and is picketed out by the CFMEU for no good reason other than to cause disruption.
The idea of the building watchdog was to have a cop on the beat, if you like, where they were able to stop the abuse of women that we’ve seen on building sites by the CFMEU officials. We’ve been critical of the Prime Minister, we have been supportive of lots of things that he’s done and we will support good policy, but we’re critical where the Government gets it wrong. I think the Prime Minister doubling down and saying that it was okay to accept these donations from the CFMEU and continuing to take them, as I say, at a time when they’re being charged is something that he needs to answer. The Premier, I think, has shown the way for the Labor Party now federally and I hope that they can follow suit as quickly as possible.
HOST
Peter, you guys have put nuclear power back on the agenda and a discussion around it. We’ve had that discussion here in South Australia in recent years because of the Royal Commission into the nuclear fuel cycle that found here in SA that there was a compelling economic case for nuclear waste storage and the Government ultimately decided not to pursue it and go down that path. But I wonder whether you think that the storage of nuclear waste should be part of the consideration as we consider our energy mix going forward?
PETER DUTTON
Well, certainly. I mean, it’s a very important part, and the conversation about what value we can add to uranium instead of just extracting it from the ground and then putting it on a ship and allowing somebody else to add value to it – we need to talk about all of that. And the fact that it’s against the law to even consider nuclear energy in this country is an absurdity in this day and age, particularly with the latest generation of nuclear technology. I mean, the nuclear submarine that we’re talking about getting from either the United States or the United Kingdom in its modern form has a reactor that doesn’t need to be touched for 32 years, can power that nuclear submarine – zero emissions – and it can circumnavigate the globe. Yes, the issue of the waste and the storage of that is an important part of it, but again, we’ve got – as the scientists have demonstrated – one of the most stable environments to be able to store that waste, and we do that now with the waste from nuclear medicine, when people go to hospitals and the waste that is produced there. So, I just think we need to have a mature debate about it. If you have a look at the United Kingdom, where they’ve got a rapid rollout of electric vehicles, they’ve got very significant commitments to reduction in emissions, they’re very clear about the fact that they can’t introduce more renewables into their system, and they can’t continue to meet their goals of emissions reductions without nuclear power firming up the renewables. The Prime Minister famously says, oh, well, it’s you know, it’s free to harness the sun and the wind. Well, that’s right. But there’s a cost of firming it up so that we can get power over nighttime, and in particular we’re worried about industries that want to close because they’re now seeing an unreliable power source. So, the manufacturing business can’t continue to operate in Australia if the power is going on and off. They’ll go overseas, the emissions still go into the atmosphere, and we lose the jobs.
HOST
Peter, you also mention nuclear subs, which is an issue completely close to people’s hearts here in South Australia with the proud submarine building capacity that we have here. I know you’re an advocate of purchasing submarines to fill the capability gap until those are built. I just wonder whether you guys are still completely committed to the idea of an Australian build at some point, even in the event that off the shelf options are purchased in the short term?
PETER DUTTON
Well, look, as Defence Minister, we did a lot of work on AUKUS and, you know, I’m proud of the agreement that we were able to strike there with the US and the UK. It is absolutely essential as an island nation that we have a submarine fleet, we have a service fleet, and obviously South Australia has contributed to that very significantly. So, that’s the first point. The point I made when I was Defence Minister was I don’t think there’ll be a problem with the number of jobs in South Australia, in the construction of submarines or a surface fleet. The issue, the biggest issue I think that we will face, that we’re facing today and into the future will be whether we’ve got enough workers in SA. There’s been a lot of work done under Steven Marshall and now under the new administration to attract workers to South Australia and that’s been successful. So, I don’t think there’s going to be any shortage of work in South Australia for the near, medium or long-term, to be honest.
But the most important priority, particularly given where China is at the moment, is that we achieve the capability as quickly as possible and so I support the position now of the new Defence Minister, Richard Marles, where he says that acquiring the capability is in our national interest, in our national security interest, it provides a deterrence against any adversary, and so we need that capability as quickly as possible.
But part of the deal that we struck under AUKUS meant that there must be a domestic industry. You have to demonstrate what the Americans call nuclear stewardship: that is, your ability domestically to be able to construct, to repair, and also to work on their fleet when it comes into dock as well. So, I think that opportunity for South Australia will be there. It’s necessary that the shipbuilding industry in South Australia is crucial to not only the SA economy but also to the to the national security effort of our country. It’s a mature industry and we don’t want to see that valley of death again. So, the pipeline of work is really important and I think we can achieve both of those objectives.
HOST
The Leader of the Federal Opposition, Peter Dutton. Thanks very much for joining us this morning.
PETER DUTTON
Pleasure, guys. Thank you.
[ends]