Subjects: Ministerial reshuffle a test of the Prime Minister’s leadership; Labor’s cost of living crisis; the Prime Minister’s failed Voice referendum shambles that divided our country and wasted $450 million; the CFMEU and Labor’s rackets, rorts, and rip-offs in the construction sector; Director-General of ASIO rightfully reinstated as a permanent member on the National Security Committee; safety of public figures; Australia-United States relations.
E&OE
BEN FORDHAM:
Peter Dutton is the Federal Opposition Leader. He’s in Sydney this morning and he’s in the studio. Good morning to you, Peter.
PETER DUTTON:
Good morning Ben.
BEN FORDHAM:
So, if you had the deck in front of you, Labor’s deck, and you’ve got to pretend that you’re on the other side for a moment, who’s on the top of the list for being tossed to the bottom of the deck and moved out of the way?
PETER DUTTON:
Oh, geez, that’s a hard question. It’s, there’s a few…
BEN FORDHAM:
You can only pick one.
PETER DUTTON:
…There are a few contenders, right?
BEN FORDHAM:
You gotta pick one.
PETER DUTTON:
I mean, you’ve got Chris Bowen, but he keeps on giving, so leave him where he is. I think Andrew Giles has to be the top of the list. You can’t release 153 hardened criminals into the community, and as it turns out, it wasn’t necessary to do so. They’ve gone on to commit further crimes. And the bloke hasn’t been held to account for it.
So he has to go. I don’t think he will, because he’s a factional ally of the Prime Minister, so he’ll probably get a safe landing into trade, as you say – but he should be on the backbench by now. If the PM’s got any backbone, he would send Giles to the backbench and let it be very clear message to other Ministers that if you underperform in the way that Andrew Giles has, don’t expect to be in the Ministry of his Government.
BEN FORDHAM:
What about Clare O’Neil? She’s going to be spared the axe, according to the speculation today.
PETER DUTTON:
Well, she was out giving a big speech last week, which I think was, sort of, a ‘please look at me and I’m doing okay’ type speech. But she deserves to go as well because we’ve got boats arriving, we’ve got people landing on Australian soil that we don’t know anything about. And Clare O’Neil’s presided over a Department where they’ve pulled money out of Border Force for aerial surveillance and for maritime surveillance – and that’s why these boats now getting through.
BEN FORDHAM:
Linda Burney has been unwell. She’s had health challenges. But as a Minister for Indigenous Australians, I mean, she had the dramas last year with the Voice, but she’s also just been missing in action, hasn’t she?
PETER DUTTON:
Yeah look, I think Linda’s a very nice person, but I think the job’s been beyond her. The Voice was a debacle for our country. It was a $450 million waste of taxpayers money. It divided the country. Even to this very day, the Prime Minister and Linda Burney can’t tell you whether they’re still in favour of Makarrata or truth telling. They’ve got money in the budget for it, but they don’t want to talk about it.
I think it really was the tone that undermined the Prime Minister’s standing right from the start. The Voice has been a debacle, and we shouldn’t be dividing Australians on gender, on race, on any basis whatsoever. The Prime Minister, his first responsibility is to keep Australians together and safe – and he’s just not done that.
BEN FORDHAM:
Will Australians have forgotten about the Voice debacle by the time they roll around to the next election?
PETER DUTTON:
Look Ben, I think some people will, but I think it’s a constant reminder whenever you hear bad economic news now. The Government’s had three budgets to deal with what they knew was coming down the line – higher inflation, the world circumstances, where things are starting to sour.
The Government had the opportunity in that first 16 months to make decisions, and they were distracted by the Voice. Instead of making the right economic decisions, they’ve made decisions in budgets, which frankly, is what’s making it worse for families now. It’s what’s putting upward pressure on inflation, and therefore interest rates. In the first 16 months, instead of the Voice, they should have been concentrating on making good economic decisions.
BEN FORDHAM:
The Opposition Leader Peter Dutton, is our guest in the studio.
I want to have a look at a record number of Kiwis who’ve moved to Australia after visa rules were relaxed. The numbers are out today and this is at the same time the PM is vowing to halve net overseas migration by mid next year.
There’s a warning from a migration expert in The Financial Review today. He says, ‘the Federal Government keeps doing things that add to net overseas migration’. This strong inflow of New Zealanders is putting their plans to reduce net migration at odds with reality.
PETER DUTTON:
Well Ben, that’s exactly right. When you look at each of the Government’s projections, they keep telling Australians that the number of migrants coming into the country will go down, but instead they go up on each when you look at the actual figures as opposed to the projected figures.
But what does that mean practically for us? Well, it’s inflationary – so it’s putting upward pressure on interest rates, which is why we’ve had 12 interest rate rises under this Government. They’ve brought in almost a million people over the last two years. We’ve only built 265,000 homes. So they’ve created a housing crisis in our country and people are sleeping in cars or sleeping rough at the moment, can’t find accommodation. Young people can’t find or afford a first home and the Prime Minister’s proposing over a five year period to bring in 1.67 million people, which is a population the size of Adelaide.
We know that the building sector, because of the CFMEU activity sanctioned by the Prime Minister, has put a wrecking ball through the building sector, which has driven up prices and made it harder to find builders. The record number of builder failures, you can attribute directly back to the CFMEU activity.
So they’ve really created a huge mess in the economy, which has a knock on impact to every Australian.
BEN FORDHAM:
You were just talking about the pressure on housing and I’ve revealed in the last 10 minutes or so, the pressure on critical services as well, like Foodbank. A Current Affair showed this line outside Foodbank in Melbourne and they were explaining that it’s made up largely of foreign students. And then we’ve found these videos of foreign students – and I’m not blaming them personally – but they’re filming unboxings on their YouTube channels, and they’ve got expensive watches and cameras and GoPros, and they’re opening up the free Foodbank food hampers. Surely the university should be explaining to these students, these food hampers are for people who can’t afford to feed themselves.
PETER DUTTON:
Well, of course Ben. We’ve got to take care of Australians first. We’re living in a time where we do have huge inflation. When people go to the checkout now, you know that you pay more for every item that goes into the grocery basket. People know that it’s not just their electricity bills that continue to go through the roof under this Government, it’s also the farmer and it’s the manufacturer and it’s the cold storage and that’s…
BEN FORDHAM:
But on the university students, should the universities be educating the foreign students to say, ‘hey, we just need to get you to understand exactly what these food hampers are for’?
PETER DUTTON:
But Ben, that shouldn’t be in the line in the first place. The food hampers are being provided to Australian citizens who are in need – pensioners, people who have lost their jobs, people who are victims of domestic violence, people who at the moment under this Government are working as hard as they’ve ever worked, but they still need Foodbank assistance because they can’t afford to pay their mortgage or their insurance bill. So that has to be the priority, particularly where taxpayer funds are going into providing extra support to Foodbank, not for international students.
BEN FORDHAM:
On the CFMEU – they have been under a massive cloud of controversy following all of the bullying and corruption allegations. They’ve now decided to take some action and they want to bring in a national code of conduct. But what about this idea from the RMIT law professor, Anthony Forsyth – he says we should go further and there should be a character test that should be applied to those who hold office within the CFMEU. Do you support that idea?
PETER DUTTON:
Yes I do, and we tried to introduce that when we were in Government and the Labor Party wouldn’t support it. So this is a problem, which I think, is more significant than Australians realise. We’re talking about a multi, multibillion dollar fraud on the Australian taxpayer. I was talking to a builder and a developer separately over the weekend. The developer had had his dog baited by a CFMEU official. When you speak to the developer, they’re talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars more going on to the price of a unit that ultimately people are paying for. When you’re building a hospital, there’s a 30 per cent CFMEU premium on that hospital.
We were up in Muswellbrook yesterday. People there, rightly, complaining about the roads. We’re not getting value for money. People, as I say, when they pay their taxes, it’s in an environment at the moment where they’re struggling to pay their own bills, and they want to know that the Government is efficiently spending the tax that they pay. And the CFMEU are a corrupt organisation…
BEN FORDHAM:
So, so..
PETER DUTTON:
…This is a modern day mafia.
BEN FORDHAM:
An argument led to a dog being baited?
PETER DUTTON:
The threats and the intimidation is happening on a daily basis around, not just New South Wales, but in Queensland, in Victoria, and the CFMEU are employing members of bikie gangs, as Nick McKenzie, to his great credit, has pointed out. I think there’s a lot more to come. Part of the problem, which again, he’s reported on, is that builders and developers don’t want to speak out because they’re worried about retaliation and retribution from these thugs.
BEN FORDHAM:
You mentioned bikie gangs – Senator Lidia Thorpe has leapt to the defence of a man who’s set to be deported, and this is Dean Martin, the former bikie leader. And she says her former boyfriend should not be deported because he’s Aboriginal. She says the Government’s made a mistake here. He has proof and support and connection to elders and community in Tasmania. So how can you be from New Zealand and also be Aboriginal?
PETER DUTTON:
Look Ben, it doesn’t add up. I mean what’s wrong with the Senator? You can’t allow people to stay in our country who are non-citizens, who are committing crimes against Australians. As Immigration and Home Affairs Minister, I deported 6,300 people. People who had committed sexual assault, rapes against Australian citizens, people who’d been involved in drug importation and distribution. The bikies are the biggest distributors of drugs in our country. They’re now affiliated and involved in officeholder positions within the CFMEU. If somebody has committed a crime as a non-citizen against an Australian citizen, they shouldn’t expect to stay in our country. This bloke’s no different.
BEN FORDHAM:
Mike Burgess has been reinstated, the ASIO boss, to the National Security Committee as a permanent member. This should never have happened in the first place, right?
PETER DUTTON:
Mate, it’s unbelievable, to be honest. I mean Mike Burgess has just been reappointed as the ASIO Chief. I appointed him when I had the responsibility for ASIO. He’s first class and he has stopped terrorist attacks from taking place. He’s obviously doing a lot of work on foreign coercion and all sorts of issues at the moment to keep Australians safe and most people never see in the background, the work that ASIO does.
But to not have the ASIO Director-General – the Director-General of security on the National Security Committee – and to have the Climate Change Minister and the Climate Change Secretary on there in his place – I think it shows that the Prime Minister doesn’t have his priorities right when it comes to keeping our country safe.
BEN FORDHAM:
We’ve all seen what happened to Donald Trump a week and a half or so ago. As Home Affairs Minister, when you were Home Affairs Minister, I remember seeing you walking along Sydney Harbour one day between engagements, and the number of AFP officers around you. And someone explained to me, ‘well, you know, when you’re deporting all of these people, bikies and criminals and whatever, you do become a target’. Have you ever come close to being targeted in that way?
PETER DUTTON:
Look, I think ASIO and the Federal Police do all those assessments. I’ve still got full time security to this day and that’s the reality of the world in which we live. You get death threats against children, your wife. But I’ve got great confidence in the AFP to be able to provide that protection.
It doesn’t deter me from the job that I do. It’s clear in my mind that if you’re elected into this job, or as Defence Minister or Home Affairs Minister, the first responsibility is to take care of our country and to do the right thing by Australians in our country. In cancelling the visas, it doesn’t make you popular with those bikie gang,s or the CFMEU or whatever it might be, but it is in our country’s best interests and…
BEN FORDHAM:
Is it scary as a political figure when you see something like that happen? Mainly for your children, for your wife, when they think, ‘oh, hang on a moment, you know, God forbid, that could be our dad. That could be our loved one’?
PETER DUTTON:
Yeah. Look, I think, you know, you have those conversations around the kitchen table, and, mum’s on the phone straight away to say, ‘you’re talking about those bikies again. I hope you security’s been beefed up’.
BEN FORDHAM:
This is your mum?
PETER DUTTON:
This is my mum, yeah.
BEN FORDHAM:
She worries about you?
PETER DUTTON:
She does, yeah. Yeah. So..
BEN FORDHAM:
Do you listen to your mum?
PETER DUTTON:
…Even at 53. Look, I do my best, Ben. She’d say that I don’t always listen, but she’s been a great influence in my life and I love her dearly, obviously.
But, look, in the end, you’re in public life. There’s a price to pay for that. But we live in the greatest country in the world, and we should do whatever we can to make sure that’s always the case.
BEN FORDHAM:
There’s a survey out today – I’ve only got a minute to go till the news – but a survey out today that Aussies aren’t as confident as I used to be, that America would have our back if we were engaged in war with China.
PETER DUTTON:
I think they should have confidence. I’ve just been in Washington for the Leadership Dialogue, catching up with a number of people, Republicans and Democrats. I’ve dealt with the Obama Administration, the Trump Administration and the Biden Administration. I’ve seen nothing but support for our relationship. Given that we live in such a precarious period, we need to make sure that that relationship remains strong forever.
BEN FORDHAM:
Well, enjoy your day in Sydney. You’re not headed to Paris?
PETER DUTTON:
No, I’m not headed to Paris. I’ll be here today and tomorrow, and off to Victoria, and then back to Queensland over the weekend.
BEN FORDHAM:
And when will the reshuffle be announced by the PM?
PETER DUTTON:
I’d say, under the cover of the opening ceremony…
BEN FORDHAM:
Sunday? Sunday, might be the day?
PETER DUTTON:
I think you’ve got a good nose for it Ben, and I suspect that’s probably right.
BEN FORDHAM:
We appreciate you dropping in.
PETER DUTTON:
Pleasure mate. Thank you.
BEN FORDHAM:
Peter Dutton, the Opposition Leader, joining us live in the studio.
[ends]