Subjects: Visit to Muswellbrook and the Hunter; the Coalition’s plan to deliver cheaper, cleaner and consistent energy; nuclear power; Labor’s energy policy shambles; Labor’s cost of living crisis; the Prime Minister’s lack of leadership; Andrew Giles – the hapless and hopeless Minister who has failed to keep the community safe; Labor’s neglect for the Hunter’s health system.
E&OE
STEVE REYNOLDS:
Welcome everyone out here to Muswellbrook Steel, a valued business in the Muswellbrook community. I’d particularly like to welcome the Opposition Leader Peter Dutton, our new soon to be Member in the federal house, Barnaby Joyce, our local member, Dave Layzell and Ross Cadell from the Senate, and particularly the two guys behind me that own this premises out here that are a lifeblood for many in industry.
Today we’ve had a roundtable session with councillors and community representatives to discuss the future going forward for Muswellbrook and the plans and concerns that the community have had.
Just under four weeks ago, I was in Canberra myself and sat down across from Mr Dutton and next to Barnaby and Muswellbrook as part of the HJO 10 councils – was prime focus that we’re back there at the head of the table at the moment when we come into the discussion point. As I was about to leave, Mr Dutton grabbed me on the arm and said that he wants to catch up and have a chat to discuss things. And I said to him, ‘the offer’s there, mate. Come up to Muswellbrook, you’ll be more welcome’. So, I appreciate him taking us up on that offer.
Actually, two days after that, I received a phone call having had a medical episode before I went down there, and I wasn’t expecting it to be Mr Dutton, but to check in and see how I was, which was kind of a personal touch I think mate. Being someone from a rural regional area that holds a position looking after it – that he’d pick up the phone and ring me, I appreciate that.
Barnaby’s been down here a lot and he’s spent a lot of time here currently talking about the future plans. Muswellbrook does not have a position at present moving forward as a Shire. The community has spoken overwhelmingly, at the moment, in their opinion. I held a Mayor listening post only last Friday. Asked a number of people and it seems to be the way you’re going to hear from the loud people that are out there about what they want. This is an election issue that we’re not going to have decision on, but at the moment, it’s pretty confident where Muswellbrook stands on this deal.
But I’ll hand over now to a bloke that’s become a part of the fabric. He’s spent more time down with me at the moment than I’ve spent with my wife over the past two weeks, and it’s Barnaby Joyce.
BARNABY JOYCE:
God, I hope that’s not right, but anyway.
Look, first of all, to Phil, who’s got the best cap – and we’ve managed to get a bit of a run in the park, which is good. To Harry who, has decided he’s now playing five-eighth for the local league team. Good luck them. Ross, who’s the Senator who just knows Hunter Valley inside out. He’s doing a great job. To Dave, who is doing a great job there in State Parliament and has been over in the States working out the facts and the figures and the truth and the lies about nuclear energy and other energy. So good fella to have a yarn to. And obviously what I hope will be the next Prime Minister of the Commonwealth of Australia because I want strength, not weakness – and that’s Peter Dutton.
To all of you people who’ve been here today, look, I tell you what, when I come into this area, I find a radio station that’s called PowerFM. I used to see signs saying ‘Bursting with power’. I see the power station, with their cooling towers, belting out steam because they’re keeping the toasters and they’re keeping the hot water systems, and they’re making sure people in the lifts in Sydney can go up and down and not get stuck between floors, the traffic lights on, the air conditioners on – this is the reality of the world. This is the reality of the world and this area, Muswellbrook – the town of Muswellbrook’s doing it. The coal that comes out of this area, the wealth in royalties and GST and corporate tax rates so that the Treasurer can get up and say, ‘hey, we got ourselves a surplus!’. Well, thank you very much Muswellbrook, thank you very much Biloela, thank you very much Gunnedah, thank you very much Singleton and Cessnock, thank you very much Port of Newcastle, thank you very much Gladstone – because this is the reality. The reality.
I’ll give you another reality – really important, really important. We’ve got to respect places like Muswellbrook. We’ve got to make sure that Australia understands places like Muswellbrook. Muswellbrook once more’s going to the fore. As I see it, and the people I speak to say, ‘okay, we’ll take the next step’. Baseload power – we used to use coal to boil rocks and now we’re going to use another rock to boil water. [inaudible] we’re going to use uranium, we’re going to use uranium. We’ll get the boiler makers back, fitters and turners back, leckies back – jobs – going to have them living in Muswellbrook. We want the jobs, we’ve got the nice house with the little pool, little boat to take out on Glenbawn Dam – this is the life. We want you to help us pay for that. We want to get a good wage, good salary, plus penalty rates and have a good standard of living. And in doing that, we provide this nation with the capacity to become as strong as possible, as quickly as possible, make it strong, make it ready in an uncertain world to do, to be quite frank, the patriotic thing and make Australia strong – that is so important. So important!
So what we are seeing here, and I don’t know who Mr Albanese and Mr Bowen was speaking to. They must have found a new group of people – I don’t know. I just haven’t found them. These people in this town – this great town of Muswellbrook – are positive. They can look to the future. They’re not ignorant, they’ve got good energy IQ, they understand it. We’re going to work for them. We don’t take anything for granted, nothing for granted. We’re hearing their issues – obstetrics, roads, making sure the airport – we hear them. We understand. We’re engaged with this area because we hold them in respect. And part of that respect is making sure what I hope is the future Prime Minister of Australia also understands Muswellbrook, that when he gets to his pegs – and Mr Bowen dancing and prancing around the despatch box with a smirk on his face – gets up, that we have a person say, ‘no, no, no, no Chris, I’ve been there. I’ve been there. Spoke to the people. You’re wrong, and now let’s go through the facts’.
So it’s a great pleasure to have this opportunity to hopefully represent the people of Muswellbrook. I look forward to that and I’ll treat them with respect and try and be their servant to the best of my ability. But in so doing, to have what I hope is the next Prime Minister of Australia, Peter Dutton, here as well.
Peter?
PETER DUTTON:
Thanks mate. Cheers. Well, Barnaby, thank you very much.
Firstly, can I just say to Phil and to Harry, to the whole crew here – thank you very much for hosting us today. It’s an incredible small business, but it’s a classic example of a business that relies on 24/7 baseload power. They need an economy which is working for, and not against them. They need reliable energy. I’m really proud to be here today with an amazing small business family. Small business is the generator of jobs and economic activity around the country. So thank you very much to our host today.
Thank you very much to Steve for your work as the local Mayor. The leadership that you’ve shown was on display today and the work that you put into the community is obvious as well. Thank you to you and the councillors and to the other business leaders in the local community, the other business leaders, indigenous leaders, others that we caught up with today to discuss the very important issue of baseload power and making sure that Muswellbrook continues to lead into our energy needs because we want the jobs, we want the economic growth, and we want the economic development in Muswellbrook into the future.
Thank you also to Ross Cadell, who’s a fantastic champion for the local region. As Barnaby pointed out before, knows the Hunter like the back of his hand. Also to Dave and to all of those that we’ve met up with today. I think it’s been a really informative discussion. There is a lot of support here on the ground in Muswellbrook for nuclear energy and an understanding, I’ve got to say, of the realities of what we’re facing in the energy debate at the moment.
We can’t continue a situation that Labor has us on of a renewables only policy because, as we know, your power prices are just going to keep going up under this Prime Minister. We also know that we’re going to see blackouts and brownouts. We don’t want the California type situation in our country where there are scheduled blackouts and brownouts, because businesses just won’t stay here. High energy use businesses won’t compete. They can’t manufacture in an environment like that. They go to Malaysia, or they’ll go to Wyoming, or somewhere else in the world where they can get reliable and cheaper energy.
It’s a tough decision in relation to what we need to do in the future. But my honest belief is, that like the other 19 of the 20 G20 countries – the biggest economies in the world – Australia needs to take the decision that is right for our country. Nuclear energy, along with renewables, along with gas is absolutely the answer for our country. And we will fight for our country’s best interests. That’s exactly what we’ve been doing here today.
I’ll just make a comment in relation to another issue and then I’m happy to take questions. It’s obvious that there’s a lot of unrest within the Labor Party at the moment. We’re seeing backgrounding against the Prime Minister. We’re seeing speculation around a ministerial reshuffle. The test, really, for the Prime Minister is whether or not he’s going to sack Andrew Giles, who’s been the most incompetent Minister in the Albanese Government. That’s a fair claim to make, I might say, when you look at Chris Bowen and Tony Burke and others that have presided over all sorts of policies which are making it harder not easier for Australians.
Australians are doing it tough at the moment. Under this Government, the situation has deteriorated over the last two years to a point where, with 12 interest rate rises, with energy price increases, $450 million wasted on a Voice debate that’s divided our nation, an energy policy, which is driving up inflation and creating uncertainty in the energy market, when you’ve got a migration programme where a million people have been brought in over two years – and yet only 265,000 homes have been built – and now a Prime Minister that’s turning a blind eye to the criminal conduct of the CFMEU and the bikies and other organised crime elements, which is driving up the price of construction in our country, therefore driving up inflation, which drives up interest rates.
On top of all of that, you’ve got a Minister in Andrew Giles, who has released 152 criminals unnecessarily into the Australian community, many of whom have gone on to commit additional crimes. So it’s no wonder that Australians are looking at the Prime Minister and asking, ‘what on earth are you doing? What on earth are you doing, Prime Minister, when you can’t sack a Minister like Andrew Giles?’. So instead of a parachute and a soft landing for Andrew Giles into another portfolio where hopefully he can display some competence; the Prime Minister’s test in this reshuffle is whether or not he sacks Andrew Giles. Anything short of that shows how weak and out of touch this Prime Minister is, and that’s why he needs to act instead of walking both sides of the street, which is what he normally does.
I’m very happy to take any questions.
QUESTION:
This morning, the Australian Academy of Technological Sciences and Engineering labelled your nuclear plan as highly risky. What’s your response to that?
PETER DUTTON:
I just think there are plenty of experts around, as you know, here and internationally, who look at the Australian market and see what we see; that is that we could be like Ontario, where they’ve got 60 or 70 per cent nuclear in the mix, and they’re paying about a quarter of the price for electricity that we are here in Australia. What this report shows is that the lights are going to go out, and that wind, in particular, is not reliable. You can’t have – as Barnaby rightly pointed out today, and I thought it was a great way to put it – you can’t run a full-time economy on part-time power. We know that when we’ve got no wind blowing, when you’ve got a period of rain or cloudy weather, the intermittent power is not feeding into the network and you need to have a reliable baseload power.
The Government says, ‘well, 90 per cent of baseload power comes out by 2034’ and green hydrogen is going to be their baseload power. Well, we now know that’s not going to be the case. Japan is pushing green hydrogen to the right, we know that Twiggy Forrest has taken a decision, in relation to green hydrogen, which means that it’s less likely, not more likely to come into the system. It takes nine litres of water to produce every kilo of green hydrogen.
The path that Labor has us on at the moment, is going to see an increase in power prices even more than what you’re paying today. You’re going to see scheduled blackouts, and we’re going to see disruption to our economy, which will be devastating to small businesses. Already Labor has done enough damage. In the last few budgets, they had the ability to make decisions to make it easier for families and small businesses. Instead, the decisions they’ve made has made it harder for businesses and for families as well. I don’t think Australians can afford three more years of an Albanese Government.
QUESTION:
Do you agree with the assertion that nuclear won’t be available in Australia, at the earliest, until the 2040s?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, we’ve done analysis and we’ve spoken to experts. Our analysis is that we can have nuclear into the system 2035 to 2037 in the first two sites, and then we continue to roll it out from there. So, just to be clear, when people talk about the phasing period for nuclear power, you’ve then got to ask the Government, ‘well, what’s the phasing period for your baseload power?’.
So our argument is that if you’ve got 90 per cent of baseload power, predominantly coal, going out of the system over the next decade, what replaces it? Our argument is that you need renewables, you need a lot of gas, and you need nuclear into the mid-2030s to 2040s. If you ask Labor what their policy is on baseload power, it is green hydrogen. But as we know, green hydrogen is less prospective today than it was six months ago. So is there prospect of getting green hydrogen into the system by 2035 or 2045? Well, the real answer is we don’t know because investment’s being withdrawn now. It’s obvious that green hydrogen is going to make our electricity costs much more expensive and therefore less prospective to be in the system.
So let’s have an honest debate about it. I’m not interested in the fanatics from both sides of the argument. I want to have a discussion that is in the best interests of our country. I’ve taken a decision, which is a tough one, but it’s in the long term interests of our country, and we’ll be having more to say about, in particular gas, because gas has to play a very significant role if we want to keep the lights on. You can’t stop the existing system of energy production in our country if the new one is not already ready. That’s where Chris Bowen’s got us. He’s got us into a very precarious position and as we’ve seen in the report today, the one thing that you can be sure of under Anthony Albanese is that your electricity price is going to continue to go up and up and up, and that we’re going to have blackouts and brownouts – and in that scenario, we lose economic activity, we lose jobs and that’s exactly the wrong thing for our economy.
QUESTION:
Mr Dutton, how do you know people in Muswellbrook want nuclear power?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, we’ve spoken to the community leaders today. We’ve spoken to people as we’ve walked the streets, we’ve looked at the research that’s been done in this local community. There’s a high energy IQ here. People know – and they’re not stupid as the Prime Minister believes them to be –that you have to have a reliable 24/7 baseload power. If it’s not coal, if, as the Greens say, ‘it shouldn’t be gas’, it can’t be green hydrogen because you need too much water, you need to pump the water, which is energy intensive, you need to desalinate, which is energy intensive, and even with subsidies, we’re finding out at the moment, Twiggy Forrest can’t make green hydrogen work.
So if you haven’t got coal and you haven’t got gas, you haven’t got green hydrogen, pumped hydro is too expensive – where is the energy source coming from? People in this community know, that at the end of life for the coal fired power station sites, given that we’ve already got an existing distribution network with the new poles and wires, that is the most efficient way to revitalise this community, to build the jobs, the economic activity. We know it because it’s happening in 19 of the top 20 countries in the world at the moment. Australia is the only outlier.
If you look at what the Labour Party believes in the United Kingdom, in the United States, in France, in Canada – all of those Labour leaders strongly believe in nuclear power. In fact, in the most recent election in the United Kingdom, the fight there between the Labour Party and the Conservative Party, was Labour saying that the Conservatives hadn’t done enough in nuclear power to introduce that into the system.
So let’s have an honest discussion, a mature adult-like discussion – which I’m not sure that Chris Bowen is capable of being part of – but it’s in our best interests as a country to make sure we get this right. Because if not, I just don’t think families and pensioners can afford extra increases in their power bills under Mr Albanese and they certainly can’t afford for the lights to be going out.
QUESTION:
Can you guarantee that power prices will be cheaper under your plan? And have you done any modelling on the prices?
PETER DUTTON:
We’ll have more to say in relation to prices. But as we know, as I said before, when you look at comparable markets in Ontario, they’re paying about a quarter of the price for electricity that we are here because they’ve got 60-70 per cent nuclear in the system, along with renewables, which are incredibly important. We’ve been clear about that.
But we don’t want to see 28,000km of new post wires across the landscape, hundreds of thousands of acres being taken up of new solar panels and wind turbines. We want a balanced approach. We want a mix of energy uses. But the Government’s decision to exclude nuclear just means that their prices are going to be much higher and Anthony Albanese has made decisions over the last couple of years, which have really set a country back and have really had a detrimental impact on the environment as well as the economy. I just think there’s a much better way and we’ll have more to say in relation to costings in due course.
QUESTION:
I’d just like to step away from the nuclear debate momentarily to another pressing local issue here in Muswellbrook, and even more pressing, because yesterday we attended a rally for the Nurses and Midwives Association. So what would your stance be? And I know it’s conversations that have been had with Council and the Mayor extensively about changing the Muswellbrook area DPA to be able to bring and incentivise bringing more doctors, specifically obstetricians to the area.
PETER DUTTON:
Look, I think it’s a really important issue. It came up today, and certainly the Mayor has raised this issue with us as well. As we heard today from the other roundtable participants, it’s a big issue. I mean, in a city like Muswellbrook you should have obstetric services. It’s not good enough that you need to meet an ambulance halfway between here and Newcastle for the safe delivery of a baby. Labor doesn’t get regional communities. That’s the reality. They’re more interested in Green votes in capital cities.
It’s why areas, like the Hunter, have been neglected for so long under Labor. The Labor Party’s taken the Hunter, I think, for granted for a long time. I believe very strongly that we should put in place incentives and that we should make the investments that we need to put into the health system so that we can attract the workforce, because you’ve got a perfectly good hospital with a maternity ward available. It needs to be staffed and I just encourage the Premier to make sure that the investment is put in and for Mark Butler, the Health Minister, to make good decisions, not bad decisions which have impacted, so far, negatively on this local community.
We can revitalise this area – there’s no doubt in my mind about that. If we’re committed to it, it needs to include additional investments into schooling. Harry was raising this before as a father of young kids. We heard it today in the roundtable as well. We need to make sure that there’s further investment into roads, and Barnaby’s a champion for investment into local road infrastructure, Ross as well. So these are all important discussions that we need to have. But, of course, the Prime Minister’s not here to have them. He’s happier in inner-city Sydney talking to Greens voters and trying to stop them from voting for the Greens. I’m interested in what’s in our country’s best interests.
When Muswellbrook is working well, when the economy’s growing and we’ve got the health services, when we could attract more people to live in this local community so that investment follows – that’s what’s important to me. I believe very strongly that Muswellbrook is an integral part to the energy solution. It involves nuclear, it involves renewables, it involves gas. If we do that, we can bring prices down and we can have reliable energy as well.
QUESTION:
Is there a limit to what sort of benefits the Muswellbrook community could get from a Dutton Government if nuclear goes ahead?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, I just think, have a look at the sliding door moment here. You re-elect an Albanese Government, you lose thousands of jobs within the Hunter Valley, you lose thousands of jobs within New South Wales. Muswellbrook is a classic example, where once the coal fired power station comes to an end under Labor, there are no more jobs.
We know that in the United States that when you close a coal fired power station and open a nuclear energy power station, about 77 per cent of those jobs can automatically transfer over. We know that in the small modular reactor scenario, about 650 jobs are required in that circumstance. We know, for example, in a nuclear power station people are earning about 23 per cent more than what they do if they’re in a coal fired power station job. We know that if they’re in a nuclear power plant, they’re earning about 65 per cent more than what they are in renewables jobs. That money is then spent at the local cafe, at the local service station, at the local restaurants and that encourages economic development.
So the sliding door moment is to re-elect an Albanese Government and have an economy where we’re going to have blackouts and brownouts and increased electricity prices, or vote in a Coalition Government where we have the ability to drive our economy, to bring interest rates down because we can lower inflation, not to have the wasteful spending of $450 million on the divisive Voice campaign. We know how to run an economy. I’ve been the Assistant Treasurer, the Health Minister, the Minister for Immigration and Border Protection, I’ve been the Defence Minister and the Minister for Home Affairs. I’ve run a small business. I understand how we can revitalise local communities like Muswellbrook, how we can build our economy and our country.
Our best days are ahead of us, but not if an Albanese Government is re-elected because they don’t know how to manage the economy. What we know from every day that goes by is that the Prime Minister is not getting any better, he’s getting worse. And every decision that they make, honestly, it’s – families are feeling it now. Your interest repayments are up, you pay more for your insurance, you pay more for groceries when you go to the checkout at the supermarket. There is a much better way and that will be a decision for the Australian people at the time of the next election.
QUESTION:
You’d be aware of AGL’s position on nuclear energy. Are you hopeful that you can talk them around and you would be able to work with them on the Liddell and Bayswater site?
PETER DUTTON:
Oh, look, I’m very confident that we can, because I think common sense prevails in the end. We do want renewable energy in the mix, we do want gas in the mix, and we do want 24/7 baseload power for when the intermittent energy sources aren’t working, and that’s nuclear. If we do that, we can work with companies. We will see in a community like Muswellbrook, heavy industry returning to the region or establishing in the region, because there’s a lower energy cost because you’ve got lower distribution costs. You’ve got reliable energy, which is exactly what heavy manufacturing requires and that’s what will grow the jobs here.
So we’ll work with the companies. As we’ve said before, we believe that there’s a national interest test that needs to be applied here. If owners of the land decide that they don’t want to participate in what we believe is a crucial part of the national energy grid, then we will acquire those sites, and the Commonwealth has power to be able to do that. We’ll do it on just terms, but it will be done because it’s in our country’s best interest to do so.
Again, these are tough decisions that need to be made. A weak Prime Minister can’t make them. Anthony Albanese has demonstrated every day of the last two years that he is a weak Prime Minister. He might be a nice guy, but he’s a weak and incompetent Prime Minister. Our economy can’t function with a leader who can’t make decisions in our country’s best interests.
QUESTION:
There’s a group in Muswellbrook here, who’ve been raising concerns already about environmental issues regarding nuclear, including radioactive waste. Can you guarantee that Muswellbrook locals won’t be affected by negative impacts of having nuclear here?
PETER DUTTON:
Well yes. In fact I saw some comments from a Labor MP, who is vehemently opposed to nuclear in his local community. The trouble is that he happens to be the Defence Industry Minister. And so he’s out there arguing at the moment for the nuclear propulsion system on the submarine. So in Osborne for example in South Australia, or in Henderson in WA – in Osborne, where the nuclear reactors will be based on the submarines, they are within a matter of a few hundred metres of housing. If there’s a safety issue, why has Anthony Albanese signed up to the same technology in the nuclear propulsion system, as we’re proposing here in Muswellbrook and at the other six locations around the country? In Henderson, it’s about…
QUESTION:
With all due respect, it’s the local people here who are concerned about that, not in South Australia…
PETER DUTTON:
Well, I’m giving…
QUESTION:
Can you guarantee that they won’t be affected in [inaudible]?
PETER DUTTON:
I’m giving you the examples. I’ll give you a couple of international examples, as well, where people are living with nuclear in safety. So don’t buy the nonsense scare campaign, look at the facts and the reality in relation to these communities.
In Henderson, about 10 kilometres from the local communities – if there was a safety issue there, the Prime Minister wouldn’t have signed up to the nuclear submarines. Our submariners, people who wear the Navy uniform of our country, are going to be sleeping on the submarines subsurface for literally weeks or months at a time alongside the reactors. If there was a safety issue there, would the Prime Minister sign up to that? Of course he wouldn’t. He would be negligent.
In the champagne region in France, we know that we’ve got productive farming land, the production of some of the best champagne in the world. All of those farmers, their fence lines run up to the nuclear power station or there is low grade and medium grade waste disposed of in those local communities. No safety issues whatsoever. We’ve got our athletes competing in Paris at the moment, about to – and we wish them every good fortune – we know that in Paris, in France, the French Government is signing up to more and more nuclear. People live safely in France, and obviously lots of primary production in that community. No issues at all in relation to safety.
So let’s accept that we live in 2024 and not in 1944. The technology now, as we know with the car technology, or our internet technology compared to where we were 80 years ago, is chalk and cheese. So it’s time for our country to have a mature discussion, because we can have 24/7 baseload power with nuclear. It can underpin the intermittent, unreliable power that we get from wind and solar. And if we do that, we can bring prices down, we can drive economic activity, we can help families get back on their feet.
I am very worried about Australian families and pensioners at the moment who are heating or eating this winter, but they’re not doing both. That’s because of the Albanese Government’s disastrous policy of renewables only. It’s driving up prices and it’s driving up the prospect of blackouts. Businesses, like this, can’t operate if the power is going on and off during the course of the day. They will put staff off and our economy will go into freefall. That is not a situation that I’m going to tolerate for the country.
BARNABY JOYCE:
Can I just add one thing to that because he talked about Muswellbrook? Peter gave some great examples, but I’m going to give you one more. One more and you gotta hear this. You gotta hear this. Australia does have a nuclear reactor. People don’t realise it. We do. It’s bang smack in this city you might have heard of, a town called Sydney. Right? Sydney. And around Sydney are houses worth $1.5 to $1.6 million and if they look out their front or back door, whichever way they want to face, they see Lucas Heights. So if Sydney can handle it, I reckon Muswellbrook can handle it.
STEVE REYNOLDS:
Just in closing, as we’ve said, Matt, you did the BHP announcement up here and walked the streets of Muswellbrook and asked the questions and found some former workers in the energy industry. That’s what we’re hearing – what you told me – is that people are supportive of it. They want to know [inaudible] though. It’s not council – doesn’t have a decision. But if you walk the streets of Muswellbrook and ask the genuine question, people are – the same as what they say to you on that day. That’s what I’m hearing. So we’re going to get the argument from both sides of things and it needs to happen here.
PETER DUTTON:
Terrific. Okay, thank you very much.
BARNABY JOYCE:
Thank you.
[ends]