Subject: Alice Springs crime crisis; Indigenous Voice to Parliament.
E&OE……………………………………
ANDREW BOLT:
Peter Dutton, thank you so much for joining me. You went to Alice Springs last year. You’ve been challenging the Prime Minister to go and look for himself and do something. He did today fly in, but without taking any media with him, without giving details of what he’s doing, without giving a press conference in time for most TV bulletins tonight. Why do you think he’s been so reluctant to get involved?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, Andrew, it’s a great question. I went up to Alice Springs in October and it was obvious to me then that the situation was completely out of control. Just as you walked around the streets talking to women, to mothers, to grandmothers, Indigenous elders, small business owners, there was just a common theme that ran through all of it.
I met with the Prime Minister when I came back and said I thought the situation was so severe that there would be vigilante action and a really violent response on the ground if something wasn’t done, if there wasn’t an intervention and I wrote to the Prime Minister asking for a Royal Commission, particularly in relation to the allegations of sexual abuse against children, and I’ve still not received a response to that letter.
So, I welcome the fact that the Prime Minister has gone to Alice Springs, but they’re strange circumstances where you don’t tell the media you’re going, you go in just for a short period of time and I just question who he’s been able to meet with in such a short visit, and hopefully the outcomes are what is most important here, that they can be seen very quickly because the Prime Minister needs to act urgently.
ANDREW BOLT:
Yeah, but, you know, a lot of the focus is, of course, on the Prime Minister. But what I want to know is where are all these Aboriginal leaders who have been saying, ‘we need Labor’s, you know, Voice to Parliament, we’ve got to be heard.’ Here’s their chance to be heard and actually go and do something by going to Alice Springs and showing that Aboriginal leaders do have the answers. So, where is Marcia Langton, where is Tom Calma – the people who wrote the blueprint for the Voice – where is Noel Pearson? Where are the heads of the land councils? Where’s Greens Senator Lidia Thorpe? Why are they waiting again for whites to fix this and isn’t that the whole problem?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, Andrew, I just don’t understand how in our country, in this year, any leader in Alice Springs can sit back – or across the country, for that matter, as you point out – can sit back and tolerate the knowledge of what’s happening in Alice Springs. I mean, it kills me to think of the young children who are being sexually violated in that community or anywhere. But the prevalence is acute in Alice Springs and other parts of the Northern Territory at the moment. There are many people who are having their lives adversely impacted, both Indigenous and non-Indigenous, and we hear from the Northern Territory Minister and it really runs, this is a theme that runs through the Prime Minister’s thinking as well, is that they don’t want to act because of race. I mean it’s just such an absurd proposition: they need to act because these kids need to be protected. They need to act because people are committing offences against the law. If the rule of law isn’t applied equally, then you will get disorder and dysfunction within communities and that’s not what we want to see. So, I just think if you know that there are these abhorrent behaviours and activities taking place, I just don’t know how, as a leader, you can sit there and be quiet. We need to stand up, be heard, make sure that the response is provided, the changes take place, and the lives of these kids and women are improved.
ANDREW BOLT:
I think for them it’s easier to call for a Voice and say that, you know, non-Aboriginal Australia is guilty then it is to go out there and do the real things that are needed on the ground right now. They’ve got the power, they’ve got the position, they could do it, they don’t. Now you asked for details, or you keep asking for details of this Voice before you make up your mind. That strategy’s been useful because it exposed the government will not provide the details, and details are important, but my question is what about the fundamental principle? Should we really be dividing Australians by race and say to one of those races, ‘well, you have different political rights to everyone else, you have your own Voice to Parliament, because your race is so different.’ How can this possibly be something that you, a Liberal, could support?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, Andrew, there’s a massive debate obviously going on in relation to Australia Day at the moment, that people feel the need to trash part of our history, part of the foundation stone of our country, to build up another aspect of our history. We’ve got a proud Indigenous heritage, we’ve got a proud British heritage, and people have come from the four corners of the earth to complement that, to make us the great country that we are, the greatest country in the world…
ANDREW BOLT:
I will come to Australia Day in a moment, Peter Dutton, but my question specifically is the racial division of Australians, now to be put in our Constitution, where one race has different political rights to the others. How can you as a Liberal possibly even think of supporting that? It’s not a question of detail, this is about fundamental principle.
PETER DUTTON:
Well Andrew, the point I guess I was going to make was I just don’t think we need to pull down one part of who we are as a culture or a people to build up the other and I think it’s equally applicable to Australia Day, to other debates, including in relation to the Voice. I think it’s important that we hear from a regional voice because there is – as we’ve demonstrated in Alice Springs and across the Northern Territory, across Western Queensland, Far Northern Queensland and parts of WA in particular, parts of South Australia in regional remote areas there – there is acute disadvantage and people do want to see an outcome, a better outcome and a better future for those people…
ANDREW BOLT:
I’ve got that, but this is not about disadvantage. Look, I’m not arguing with you about whether there is disadvantage. There’s lots of disadvantage. There’s so many Aboriginal groups saying they’re doing something about it, 2,700 Aboriginal organisations, you’ve got more than 30 land councils, you’ve got 11 federal politicians saying they’re Aboriginal, identifying as Aboriginal. You’ve got, I don’t know how many different Aboriginal groups, there are so many and you’ve still got these problems. It’s not about a lack of consultation. But I want to come back to that question again. Forget the details. This is about fundamental principle, a Labor plan to divide Australians by race and giving one side, one race, different political rights to another. As a Liberal dedicated to everyone being equal before the law, how can you possibly even think about agreeing to something like that? It is not about details, it’s about a fundamental principle.
PETER DUTTON:
Well, Andrew, from my position, I’ve been very upfront and honest in relation to my approach: that is that we’re going through a discussion now, we’re going through trying to obtain all of the detail from the Prime Minister and from the government, and the onus is on the Prime Minister to provide that detail to millions of Australians. If there are fatal flaws, if there are insurmountable issues that we can’t get over, then we’ll be very clear about that, but I’m considering respectfully all of the information that is there at the moment…
ANDREW BOLT:
I’ve got the details. I’ve got it. You’re absolutely right. Details are important. Details are important. I agree with you, and you’ve fleshed out some terrible lack of details from this government, right. My question is about the principle. This is what a lot of Liberal supporters don’t understand, how the Liberal Party could possibly be playing footsie with a re-racialisation of Australia a re-tribalisation, a new apartheid even. And a new poll today saying 10 per cent, only 10 per cent of Liberals would say yes to this. We’re looking for leadership, no to racism. I don’t know why the Liberals can’t say that.
PETER DUTTON:
Well, Andrew, nobody’s in favour of racism in the Liberal Party and if they are, they don’t have a place in our Party, so, that’s the first point. But the point I was making before was that…
ANDREW BOLT:
Does it have a place in our Constitution?
PETER DUTTON:
…I will make…Well, I will make very clear my position in due course. There are a lot of commentators and people who are our supporters and others who were calling for us, demanding that we state a position before the government even made their announcement when it was mooted that there would be a constitutional referendum. Now, we’re in a position where I believe very strongly that we’re putting appropriate pressure on the government, which we wouldn’t have been able to do had we just raced out of the blocks and declared a position without listening to all of the facts. I think the Prime Minister would be saying now, he’s not releasing any detail because Liberals have already made up their mind and other parties have already made up their mind and therefore they don’t deserve the detail. I think by the way in which we have entered this debate, as I say, in a respectful way, we have said on behalf of millions of Australians – who may not be as adamant in their position as you are – that they want to hear that information, that they want the detail from the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister is now saying, ‘well, hang on, this is not my idea. This is not my idea as Prime Minister. This is an idea that was just put to us by Indigenous leaders and he committed to at Garma.’ Well, there are millions of Australians who are on a broad spectrum in terms of their support or not in relation to the Voice, and we’re representing those people and we’re asking for the detail on their behalf…
ANDREW BOLT:
Look, that is a very important point. Very important point.
PETER DUTTON:
…so that they too can make an informed judgement in time.
ANDREW BOLT:
Yeah, the Voice is not just for the, what is it, 3.6 or 7 per cent of the Australians who identify as Aboriginal. It’s also for the other 96 per cent-plus who aren’t. It affects us all. We all have a say.
PETER DUTTON:
Of course. Of course.
ANDREW BOLT:
Peter Dutton, thank you so much indeed for your time. Really appreciate it.
PETER DUTTON:
My pleasure, Andrew.
[ends]