Subjects: The Coalition’s plan to revive the home ownership dream and boost building across Australia; skilled labour; the CFMEU and Labor’s rackets, rorts, and rip-offs in the construction sector; nuclear energy; Queensland election issues; King Charles III and Queen Camilla’s visit to Australia.
E&OE.
SABRA LANE:
The Federal Coalition has launched a $5 billion housing policy promising to build half a million new homes by turbo boosting funding for enabling infrastructure like roads, sewerage and power connections.
The Government’s focus has been on an agreement with the states and territories to build 1.2 million social and affordable new dwellings, despite warnings the goal is overly ambitious and delays payments until the homes are delivered, in some cases years from now.
The Opposition Leader Peter Dutton joined me earlier.
Peter Dutton, thanks for joining AM
PETER DUTTON:
Thanks Sabra.
SABRA LANE:
You’re promising half a million extra homes over four years. Currently Australia builds on average about 160,000 a year. Your policy means a 74 per cent boost on business as usual. How realistic’s that?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, it’s very realistic and it’s been done in consultation with the HIA and the MBA – the Master Builders Association, the Urban Development Institute of Australia, the Property Council. All of them have fully endorsed the policy, and every economist will tell us that we need to get more supply into the housing market, given the demands that are there, given the population growth, and I believe it’s entirely possible. Not only is it possible, we can have a look at what we did in government, that was a boost – particularly for first home buyers – the opportunity to get into housing and the market was able to meet that additional demand.
We need to get back to building houses and making sure that we can restore that great Australian dream of home ownership.
SABRA LANE:
Well, that means 285,000 new homes a year. Respected housing economist Ben Phillips says that is ‘wildly optimistic’, and he says, ‘inducing 500,000 new extra new homes would be the most extraordinary outcome achieved in the housing space for Australia’.
PETER DUTTON:
Well, I take that as a compliment because it’s required and this needs to be a national effort, and we need to make sure that we have a policy which is based on the best advice. That’s exactly what this policy is, and it’s about creating 500,000 new homes in a market where there is significant demand. There are other elements of the policy that we intend to announce between now and election day, but we’ve been very serious about this as our number one issue, along with cost of living assistance to Australians, to making sure we can get interest rates down and get the economy pumping again.
SABRA LANE:
Will the money be only for new greenfield sites on city fringes? What about higher density infill closer to the city centres where many people want to live and work so that they’re not spending hours commuting?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Sabra, the basis of our policy really and the focus has really been around greenfield sites. So trying to create that additional capacity and perhaps take some pressure off areas where, as you say, there’s some support, but not unanimous support for additional density, particularly where there are capacity constraints around road and public transport and other infrastructure that just hasn’t been planned for.
SABRA LANE:
So, no, not for high density infill?
PETER DUTTON:
We don’t rule it out exclusively, but we have made the point that our very strong focus, and our preference, and our weighting will be for those greenfield sites.
SABRA LANE:
Where will the extra skilled labour and builders come from to help do this? The Coalition’s already talked about cutting permanent migration to about 140,000 a year. Will you still allow skilled labour from overseas? And if so, does that mean that you’re going to have to cut other occupations like nurses and doctors?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, we’ve said very clearly that we need to prioritise the people who are coming in to go into the trades. That’s a very important part of the policy and we were clear about that in May, in my Budget In Reply speech.
We’ve also been clear about making sure that we can access a workforce that’s readily available here in Australia now, and that is people who have retired early, but want to come back into the workforce, but are prevented from doing so because of the rut between the welfare system and the tax system. People can’t get more than a day a week, or a few hours a week in paid employment before it affects their pension, and in other markets we’ve seen a big uptake in that cohort and I think that is a big part of the picture as well.
SABRA LANE:
So will you have to cut other occupations in need, or are you going to reduce sort of family reunion numbers?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, we’ll have more to say about the composition of the policy when we see exactly where the demand is for particular industries and prioritise on that basis, and that includes, in particular, tradespeople.
Now, it’s important also to point out that the Government has deprioritised people coming in through the migration programme with those trade skills because that’s what the CFMEU has demanded of the Government, and it’s had quite a distortionary impact on the economy.
Final point, of course, is that the CFMEU has had a massive impact on the building sector. Productivity is way down and we know that the way in which they negotiate is essentially with the hand of the bikies and others, and that has had a devastating impact on parts of the building sector.
SABRA LANE:
The philosophy underpinning your policy, you’re hoping that voters in suburban marginal electorates will back this idea of aspiration rather than sort of the Government’s policy heavily focussed on providing social and affordable housing? Is that the philosophy?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Sabra, I think there’s something wrong with our system when young people have given up the dream of home ownership, and many of us have been fortunate enough to get into housing when we were younger. For the same circumstances now, a young person can’t get into housing, and I think that is devastating for them, I think it’s devastating for their parents as well, and so who is an appropriate target…
SABRA LANE:
Sure, but that hasn’t been a problem that’s just happened over the last two years, that’s been a…
PETER DUTTON:
No, no. No, but it’s compounded when you’ve brought in a migration programme that’s probably the biggest in our country’s history. The Government brings in 1.67 million people over five years – a city the size of Adelaide – and there’s been no planning for it. We’re at an 11 year low for building approvals and as I say, the productivity in the building sector now, given the CFMEU activity, is at an all time low.
So, there’s a lot that we can do, and it’s not just for first home buyers as well, it’s parents and grandparents who want to see their kids or their grandkids into housing.
People are putting off having children now because they can’t get into housing, so it’s affecting our birth rate, which obviously has a negative impact on the economy as well.
SABRA LANE:
Housing approvals essentially come down to councils and states releasing more land, which brings me to the issue of how the federation currently functions. What is your assessment of how it’s working at the moment?
PETER DUTTON:
I think it’s dysfunctional and I think it gives rise to an enormous amount of waste and duplication in approval processes. There’s obviously disparity between the collection of taxation and the administration of responsibilities, and that is something Kevin Rudd, to his credit, spoke about in 2007 – ending the blame game – and I think the problem has only compounded for our country since then.
It’s stifling to do business in this country and there’s everybody involved in government, at three levels, both sides of Parliament are to blame for how this has compounded, and it’s not easily fixed, it’s not going to be fixed overnight, but the Prime Minister hasn’t spoken one word about it in two and a half years in office. I think it’s one of the most compelling issues for our country to deal with.
SABRA LANE:
You talked about nuclear. Queensland LNP Leader, David Crisafulli is not a fan of the Federal Coalition’s policy. He could be the Premier this weekend. If you win the federal election, how will you persuade him to change his mind?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Sabra, we’ve been clear on nuclear for a few reasons. One is it’s zero emissions technology, it’s embraced by 19 of the top 20 economies…
SABRA LANE:
Sorry…
PETER DUTTON:
…in the world, Australia is the only one.
SABRA LANE:
To the point of the question, how would you change his mind?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, just to explain the rationale first and why I think it’s a compelling argument. Firstly, it’s zero emissions. Secondly, we can bring down the cost of electricity. And third, we can underpin with baseload power the renewables that are important in our system as well. That’s the experience and that’s the pitch that I would make to Premier Malinauskas, or Premier Minns, or hopefully Premier Crisafulli.
Interestingly, I mean Premier Miles, if he’s re-elected on the weekend, has said that he’ll hold some sort of referendum, or some sort of vote in Queensland, presumably he would be bound by that vote. So, it seems to me at the moment that Steven Miles is promising that if there is a vote for the technology, for nuclear, that that he would implement it.
So, I think in Queensland this weekend though, there are many other issues that are racing around that have gotten away from the Miles Government that people will be voting on. I hope they can vote for a change of government.
SABRA LANE:
Listen, one of those issues at the election is Robbie Katter’s idea that he wants to vote to re-criminalise abortion if the LNP wins. Has he done the Coalition any favours by bringing that up?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, it’s been dealt with during the course of the campaign and I’ve noted the words of both the Premier and hopefully the incoming Premier, David Crisafulli. To be honest, I don’t think it’s a debate that is shifting votes one way or the other. I think people are voting on crime and law and order, which in many cases – just over the weekend in Townsville – you see is completely out of control.
I think people are voting on issues around their own budgets, their own economy, their own workplace. There are many issues that people are motivated by in this campaign and I think that’s where the election will be decided.
SABRA LANE:
The King seemed to be making a point yesterday about Australia’s natural advantages with wind and solar and Indigenous stewardship, but he was interrupted by Senator Lidia Thorpe’s protest. Some say that she should be sacked. I’m not sure how that can happen in Parliament given she’s been elected. But in a democracy like ours, is that an expression of freedom?
PETER DUTTON:
I think people need to express themselves respectfully, and sometimes people make it all about themselves, and I think that’s what yesterday was. It didn’t advance anyone’s cause and in fact, there are many Indigenous leaders overnight who have condemned the actions. I don’t intend to add to the self-promotion that she seeks. I think the respectful way to protest is how people will do it today or yesterday or in other visits.
The vast majority of people have been very welcoming of the King’s visit, and I think it’s been an opportunity to underscore the stability in our democracy, our rule of law, the separation of powers – all of those institutions that we inherited from our British heritage, that’s part of the success story in our country, and it’s a good reminder during his visit. If we change it, I think we’d want to be very careful about the system we’re changing to and whether or not we would be a safer, more secure community and an environment for decades to come or not.
SABRA LANE:
Peter Dutton, thanks for joining us this morning.
PETER DUTTON:
Pleasure, Sabra. Thank you.
[ends]