Subjects: Meeting with Port Stephens community members to discuss Labor’s offshore wind proposal in the Hunter; Chris Bowen’s botched handling of community consultation in Port Stephens; nuclear energy; the Prime Minister’s divisive Voice, Treaty, Truth proposal; the AFL and NRL Grand Finals – Go Brisbane!
E&OE
RICHARD KING:
Well, we’ve certainly had plenty of politicians visiting our neck of the woods – if I can use that expression – in recent weeks, and one of them being my next guest, Leader of the Opposition, Peter Dutton, who is on the line now.
Good morning, Mr Dutton, and thank you very much for your time this morning.
PETER DUTTON:
My pleasure. Thank you.
RICHARD KING:
Well, look, the reason you were here earlier in the week, along with Shadow Treasurer Angus Taylor, was to meet with people who are objecting to the proposed offshore wind zone, off the Newcastle Central Coast area. What’s your feeling on these proposed wind zones, because there have been a number nominated by the Federal Government?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Richard, firstly, we had a really good opportunity to catch up with some of the commercial fishers, some of the people that take charters out every day. So, they know the area really well. Lots of tourist operators who are really worried that the $600 million industry is going to be adversely affected by these wind turbines, and the problem, the real problem that the community has – as it was expressed to us – is that there just hasn’t been adequate consultation. There’s no understanding about the environmental impact, the migratory whale patterns, what happens in that regard, what happens on the floor obviously of the ocean where there will be multiple, multiple cables that ultimately work their way back to the beach or to the coastline somewhere. So where do they onshore? That’s not clear yet. So, I think there’s just a level of frustration and anger within the community, and that’s certainly what we witnessed the other day. People just want a proper process and to be consulted, but they just haven’t been consulted, and Chris Bowen has been to talk to them, but I think that frankly raised more questions than it provided answers.
RICHARD KING:
Well, it’s interesting, though, because there was a consultation period and I dare say the case was with a lot of people on the Central Coast, they did object strongly, and I think the closest they can come down on the Central Coast is about 30 kilometres out. They were very successful in their objections. I think the closest it can come off Port Stephens, where you were earlier in the week, is about ten kilometres. I think South Australia have said ‘nah ah’ we don’t want them at all. Is it simply the case that they got, you know, caught with their pants down – and people up at Port Stephens didn’t realise there was a consultation period?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, there’s a consultation period that’s required of 65 days, but I think there are ways in which you can do it genuinely and ways in which you can, frankly, bury it a bit – and that seems to be the mood of the whole group that we met with. These are professional people, they’re busy small business people, they’re not political activists or not consultants. So, I think they’re excused for not being professionals in terms of engaging with government. But no, I think there’s a real belief that people weren’t properly informed, that the residents weren’t properly notified, weren’t given advance notice of the timelines that they had to make submissions to the process.
So, I think there’s a genuine concern, and the call that they’re making now, which I think is the appropriate one, is that the project be put on hold until the consultation can be conducted. They’re also concerned about the environmental impact statement being undertaken by the proponents or the companies that will be involved in drilling into the seabed and erecting these 260 metre wind turbines. They don’t understand what happens to the marine life and what happens to the exclusion zones. You’re talking about potentially up to 400 wind turbines, which is a very significant impact environmentally, and as I say, we don’t know where the cables will be onshoring.
RICHARD KING:
Yes. Alright, so you’re of the opinion they should reopen that consultation period?
PETER DUTTON:
I think that’s reasonable, and I think that’s certainly what the community expectation is and the impact on their businesses and the community would be very significant. So, I think it’s warranted.
RICHARD KING:
Okay. I did mention earlier, too, for our listeners that there is another protest meeting happening out at Nelson Bay next Saturday.
Look, while we’re talking about energy, you’ve had a lot to say. And I’ve spoken to Ted O’Brien, your Shadow Climate Change and Energy Minister, about nuclear, and certainly you’re of the opinion we should be at least considering it – even though I think that figure that was released earlier in the week of it’s about the same as the cost of the AUKUS submarines. I think getting up close to $400 billion allegedly to replace our coal fired power stations with nuclear. Many say we should be going down that path and you’re one of them, Mr Dutton?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Richard, we’ve started this conversation and Ted O’Brien’s done a great job in having the public debate. I think the problem is in a sense that for our generation, people conjure up images of old 1950s or 60s technology. But that’s like saying that the car you drive off the showroom floor today is comparable to the car you drove off the showroom floor in the 1950s or 60s. I mean, it’s just chalk and cheese. So, the latest generation from nuclear power obviously is zero emissions. So, I think it’s the only credible way that we can get to emissions reductions targets that we’ve committed to by 2050 – first point. Second point is that renewables, whether you’ve got 28 per cent or 82 per cent of renewables in the system, you’re still going to have to firm them up for the time when those wind turbines aren’t working, and as the fisherman said the other day, don’t forget that the wind turbines don’t work if it’s under 15 knots, they have to stop if it’s over 35 knots, and if you’ve got a period of inclement weather, the solar panels aren’t feeding into the network – you’re always going to have the cost of firming up that electricity, and batteries last for an hour, the technology is just not advanced enough. So, we’ve got to have a 24/7 reliable energy source to keep freezers running, to keep economies running, to keep manufacturing running, so the latest technology, zero emissions nuclear, has been adopted by almost 50 countries around the world, and in Ontario, which is probably a pretty comparable market to ours, they’ve got 60 to 70 per cent of nuclear feeding into their market to firm up the renewables there. They’re paying half the cost of electricity that we are in our country.
RICHARD KING:
Yeah, but you would accept though, that nuclear is not going to solve the problem today. It’s something that if we did go down that track, it’s years away – so it’s not going to help us today or potentially this summer?
PETER DUTTON:
It’s not going to help this summer, but it can help in years to come. The longer you delay making a decision, the longer you arrive at the solution. If we look at the AUKUS submarines, as you pointed out, the Government’s signed up to that nuclear propulsion system in there. The latest Rolls Royce generator is fuelled to start with, it can run that submarine for 30 years non-stop. We’ve got the biggest uranium deposits in the world, so I just think we need to have a mature conversation about what role it places. Some of the assets that we’re talking about that it would replace: the coal fired generation assets, they don’t they don’t come to end of life for a number of years, so the synergies might be quite strong. The other beauty about nuclear power, Richard, I might say, is that you don’t have to start building new poles and wires through national parks and across pristine farming land, which is what the Government’s proposing at the moment. Their entire plan of what Mr Albanese proposes at the moment is costed between $1.2 and $1.5 trillion.
RICHARD KING:
Yep. As a former Defence Minister and a Queenslander – the announcement yesterday at a press conference by Richard Marles, our Defence Minister, that the garrison city of Townsville is emerging as Australia’s new army capital. As a former Defence Minister and a Queenslander, you think that’s a good move?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, Richard, I’m keen to hear from the diggers on this because there will be a lot of disruption to families and we need to understand why. As Andrew Hastie rightly pointed out yesterday, the biggest concern is the numbers are dropping off and this will mean a smaller army. So there’s a lot of spin in what the Government’s provided.
I also worry about the separation rates, the dissatisfaction from those who wear the uniform at the moment with the Government – the delay of investment, the lack of decision-making is really making it a harder workplace for our soldiers. I think that’s a real concern.
So, I don’t know how much consultation has been undertaken with those soldiers and with their families, but I hope that the Defence Minister has been able to do that because if not, they just won’t leave Adelaide or Sydney or wherever it is they’re living at the moment and they’ll find work in the private sector.
RICHARD KING:
A fortnight tomorrow – October the 14th – the Referendum on the Voice. You’ve been touring the country. Why do you think it is that when this was first announced it seemed like the ‘yes’ vote would romp it in? Well, it’s gone the other way now: the ‘yes’ vote has taken a nosedive and the ‘no’ vote’s increased massively. Why do you think that is?
PETER DUTTON:
Richard, I think the starting point for Australians and when the polling first took place, as you say, I think it indicated that every Australian wants to see a better outcome for Indigenous Australians, particularly in places like Alice Springs and Tennant Creek, etc.. So initially the instinct was, ‘yes, okay, if this is going to help improve the situation, we can support it’. But as time has gone on, I think the Prime Minister’s decision to keep the detail and to keep the design from the Australian people until after the vote has taken place just makes people suspicious about whether this will be a practical benefit, whether it will just be another layer of bureaucracy, enshrining a body like ATSIC into the Constitution that can never be changed. Is that going to help indigenous people at the grassroots level? Probably not. Definitely not, I suspect. So, I think that’s why the numbers have deteriorated. The design of the Voice, strangely, doesn’t start until the Monday after the election takes place on the 14th of October. So, that is a really peculiar, unprecedented approach by the PM and I think a lot of Australians are concerned about that.
RICHARD KING:
Okay, yeah. Well, just on that point, the Prime Minister, when he announced the date of October the 14th, said:
[excerpt]
ANTHONY ALBANESE:
You’re being asked to vote for an idea.
[end excerpt]
RICHARD KING:
Do you think that’s the problem – it’s just an idea? You’re saying there’s nothing concrete there to vote on?
PETER DUTTON:
I just honestly, I just shake my head most days thinking surely at some stage the Prime Minister is going to come out with further details so that people who have a hesitation can have that hesitation answered, and then they could vote for it, but it’s clear that’s not the strategy.
I think they’ve overreacted to the ’99 Referendum where a lot of detail was released and it created a debate that ultimately saw the Republic vote go down. But you can’t have a situation where people are asking reasonable questions – and Australians aren’t silly, they know that you can change laws in the Parliament, but you can’t change the Constitution without going back to the people with another question – and once it’s in the Constitution, a law passed by the Parliament can’t outdo that.
So just this notion that, ‘oh, it’s just a simple change, just go with the vibe’, you know, the words from the Prime Minister, they just don’t ring true, and I think that’s why it’s turned from 60 per cent support into 40 per cent support.
RICHARD KING:
Appreciate your time this morning, Mr Dutton.
As a Queenslander, you’re obviously going for Brisbane in the AFL grand final, and the NRL grand final?
PETER DUTTON:
I’ve got everything crossed for this weekend. It will be a tough gig for the Lions up against Collingwood, and similarly, Penrith’s a great side as well but…
RICHARD KING:
Go Brisbane!
PETER DUTTON:
…we’ll say all we can to help them out. Absolutely.
RICHARD KING:
Alright. Thank you very much for your time.
PETER DUTTON:
Thank you, mate.
RICHARD KING:
Have a good weekend and well, certainly for you, go Brisbane!
[ends]