Subjects: Indigenous Voice to Parliament; the Liberal Party’s position.
E&OE
PAUL MURRAY:
Peter Dutton is the Opposition Leader, Leader of the Liberal Party, and he joins us in the man cave here this evening, which I’m sure will amuse Twitter. Lovely to see you.
PETER DUTTON:
Great to see you. Thanks for having me in the man cave.
PAUL MURRAY:
Welcome.
PETER DUTTON:
It’s nice to be out from, you know…locked up and talking down the barrel of a camera, and in the studio, so thank you.
PAUL MURRAY:
No Canberra bubble.
PETER DUTTON:
It’s nice to be out of Canberra.
PAUL MURRAY:
Enjoy. So, I put the statistics here that the ‘no’ case does have the uphill climb at the moment. Why do you think it will change now that the position is clear from the Liberal Party?
PETER DUTTON:
I think the numbers are very soft. I think it’s obvious when you look at WA, Queensland, Tasmania, elsewhere, I think the numbers at the moment are inflated because people have sort of a general inclination that they want to support a better outcome, but once they understand what it is the Prime Minister’s proposing – I mean this Voice which is going to be Canberra based, it’s going to be bureaucratic and it’s not going to deliver the outcomes on the ground, in addition to the fact that it changes our system of government forever, and that you can’t out-legislate what is put into the Constitution – I think the numbers start to fade away.
But there’s a big debate to happen and we’ve written to the Prime Minister, for months now, have been waiting for answers to basic questions, he won’t answer it and even when journalists ask the basic questions, you know, he just fobs them off. I think people will start to say, ‘well, why not give us the details so we can be properly informed?’
PAUL MURRAY:
I mentioned before about polling and again, it’s the Essential Poll for those that are fact checking along the way, which shows that while majority support there was about 30 per cent that actually knew what they were voting for, which means ‘vibe’ is winning. Your argument is going to be one about the Constitution, about process, all the rest of it, but if the vibe is winning, how does one counter the vibe with the more boring side of the chat?
PETER DUTTON:
I think Paul, months before any election, people are getting on with their lives – they’re busy, they’re running kids around to sport and working and all the rest of it – and they start to focus in on a campaign closer to polling day.
I do think it’s important for us to have a proper debate because we are talking about a proposal by the Prime Minister here, which is about a big new bureaucracy, it’s not about helping people on the ground. There won’t be practical outcomes here and it is going to be, in terms of what he’s proposing, the biggest change to the Constitution, to our foundational document since Federation. I think the penny is going to drop maybe for, you know, people who have experienced campaigns before around changes to the Referendum and maybe younger people will be talking to their parents and grandparents, but this is a very significant change. You’re talking about slowing down the process of government.
When we said in Question Time only a fortnight ago that this had the potential for the Voice to have a say in debates and discussions with the Governor of the Reserve Bank, we were called racist – and of course we know on the weekend that Megan Davis, who’s the Chair of the Prime Minister’s personally appointed committee, has said, ‘well, of course it will have an influence into those deliberations and of course it will have an influence into every aspect, not just those that affect Indigenous Australians, but every area of public policy’.
If the cost of that is calculated at some point it will run into the billions of dollars and it has the potential to grind down the process of government and change our system of government, our democracy, in a way that we just haven’t contemplated in our country’s history.
I think once the penny drops on that, surely people must say, ‘actually, I think it’s too risky, I’m not going to go with it. I want a better outcome for Indigenous Australians, but I’m worried that the Prime Minister is just taking us too far.’
PAUL MURRAY:
I don’t really want to draw you too much into media observation because you’ve got to fly above that, but you saw tonight an example of at least one TV channel, not even showing what your reason was. Instead, let’s get to the horse race, right? Let’s start to put the devil horns on him. He’s the guy who wants to break everyone’s heart. How do you get around what is going to be a pretty uniform media push for ‘yes’.
PETER DUTTON:
Well Paul, I’ve been in government on and off for a long time. I’ve been in Parliament for 22 years. I’ve always found it more convenient to just be honest, to speak the truth, to speak frankly and people can make their own judgements about you. I believe the proposal that we’ve got on the table today unites Australia, and I think what the Liberal Party has agreed to today has the ability to unite our country, not divide our country, which is exactly what the Prime Minister is doing at the moment.
He has come up with a model, he’s not prepared to explain it. That’s for political reasons, because he knows that if he explains it, people will fall away. The other point is that they are proposing that the Referendum takes place on the Saturday, so people turn up to the school and sausage sizzle and they’ll have their vote ‘yes’ or ‘no’ and then that’s when the consultation process starts for six months, and that’s when they’ll decide the design of this body.
Now, I’ve said to the Prime Minister and I’ve said to the Referendum Group as well, wouldn’t it make more sense to have the six months of consultation, design what it is you’re talking about so that you can explain it to the Australian people, then let them make an informed judgement? And they say, ‘oh well, you know, you would say that’, and you know, ‘why are you suggesting that’s putting the cart before the horse?’ Of course it is. So, I just think we stay true to our values. We stay true to, you know, an honest debate, and I think in the end, what we’re proposing, as I say, is something that unites our country, not divides it.
PAUL MURRAY:
So, are you happy to have a conversation about the legislated version of the Voice between now and the Referendum? And if it was a ‘no’, then the next day in the Parliament, you and the Prime Minister would be able to move on the thing existing, but just not being in the Constitution.
PETER DUTTON:
I would be happy to sit down with the Prime Minister tomorrow to look at the issue of constitutional recognition, which has been the policy of the Liberal Party since John Howard, enshrine that in the Constitution. I think that is a respectful act and I think there’s a majority of support for that. Secondly, we’ve said today that we don’t want a national voice, which is just a Canberra voice, it’s the Prime Minister’s model, it’s a bureaucracy, it’s not going to give the practical outcomes that we want to see.
I don’t want to see those kids suffering in Alice Springs. I don’t want to see the domestic violence and the significant violence that’s taking place against business owners and others. I want to see a better outcome, and I don’t just want billions of dollars wasted. I want to see the infant mortality rate improve. I want to see the educational outcomes for kids improve. I want to see people in work. I want to see the law and order restored in that community.
So we’ve said we don’t support the national Canberra based voice that the Prime Minister is proposing, but we are happy to look at legislation which would say to those local women and others that we met with in the communities, you know, we want maternity services and birthing units, we want rehabilitation centres, we want housing, we want job outcomes and let’s work with those people on the ground.
I think it’s a much more efficient use of taxpayers money. I think we would get better outcomes delivered more quickly. Enshrining 24 people who predominantly don’t live within these regional communities and who are based in capital cities to try and find a way through, I think we’re going to end up with the same tragedy and the same waste of money with another layer of bureaucracy that we’ve seen over the course of the last decade.
PAUL MURRAY:
Peter Dutton, lovely to have you in a man cave, you’re welcome any time.
PETER DUTTON:
Great to be here, mate. Thank you.
PAUL MURRAY:
Thank you very much.
[ends]