Subjects: Jobseeker; cost of living pressures; Australia’s migration intake; NDIS; R v Kamoun court judgement; former Prime Minister Scott Morrison.
E&OE
BEN FORDHAM:
Peter Dutton, the Federal Opposition Leader is live in the studio in Sydney. Peter Dutton, good morning to you.
PETER DUTTON:
Good morning Ben.
BEN FORDHAM:
The weather is freezing cold, so a bit of a change from Queensland, but you’d be used to that in Canberra, no doubt.
PETER DUTTON:
Mate yes, you’ve gone a bit soft, I mean you need to come to Canberra.
BEN FORDHAM:
Oh no thanks, I’ve been there before. Now, I reckon you’ll support this idea – a JobSeeker increase for over 55s?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, lots of speculation around at the moment. I mean the juggling act that the Treasurer has is that inflation obviously is not under control. The Reserve Bank have a target of 2 to 3 per cent, it’s at 7 per cent at the moment, and anything the government does to increase inflation will mean that interest rates will remain higher for longer. It’ll mean that families will continue to struggle, and we know that a lot of families at the moment just don’t know how they’re going to pay the bills. So, that’s what the government has to weigh up. You’re seeing on the one hand, they’re talking about massively increasing the migration numbers, but pulling money out of infrastructure so that people will see more and more congestion. I mean there are many, many confusing stories around at the moment…
BEN FORDHAM:
Let me just return to the proposal that’s around today; over 55s getting a higher JobSeeker payment. You’ve said as Opposition Leader, when they’ve got bad ideas, you’ll whack them. When they’ve got good ideas, you’ll give them a pat on the back. I know that this hasn’t been announced yet, but on the surface, would you say that this sounds like a good idea?
PETER DUTTON:
Well again, let’s wait to see what they have in place Ben, because you’ve got to get the balance right here. You need to have an incentive for people to be able to work, and there is a difference between the Age Pension and JobSeeker in that there is a work test that’s applied to JobSeeker.
We made an announcement in June of last year – the government hasn’t properly taken up yet – that is for people who are on an Age Pension or on a Military Service Pension – perhaps they’ve retired too early, maybe their circumstances have changed, they’re on a fixed income, they need some extra cash to pay the electricity bill, the gas bill, etc – we proposed, what I thought was a very sensible proposal, particularly in a tight labour market, that you would allow those people to work for more hours and get a bit of extra cash in their pocket and not affect their pension. I think that would be a very sensible approach.
If the government’s going to bring it down to a younger age and they provide an incentive for people to go onto JobSeeker, then they need to work out that balance and we just haven’t seen that detail, so let’s wait for the budget and see what measures they’d be proposing.
BEN FORDHAM:
The more broader issue on JobSeeker is that we have 700,000 people on it. There are 438,000 jobs available in Australia right now and we have a large chunk of the people on JobSeeker who have been on it for longer than two years. So, what do you do about those people who can work, but aren’t working?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, there’s a lot that the government’s done in its first 12 months where they’ve pulled back on compliance, so people aren’t legitimately looking for work and people aren’t applying for ads or they’re just doing it online, and you see this feedback from employers all the time. They’re frustrated as well because every employer you talk to, doesn’t matter what sector, it doesn’t matter where you are across the country, people are finding it very difficult to find those workers in cafes, in agricultural operations, in tourism, etc. and it’s frustrating if you’ve got Australians who have an ability to work, are refusing to work, and I think Australians who are tax payers get angry about that, and rightly so.
BEN FORDHAM:
So, if you were Prime Minister, would you bring back Work for the Dole?
PETER DUTTON:
I think there is a great argument for bringing back Work for the Dole and other programs that say to people; ‘you’re unemployed, you’re able to work, there’s work out there, so why aren’t you in a job?’ The compliance, the benefit that you reap from a program like Work for the Dole means that it provides an incentive for people to move off the dole into work, which is a better life for them. It provides a better role model for their kids, and if they’ve got an ability to work, in the current labour market, they should be able to find work.
BEN FORDHAM:
One of the other big issues is housing. It’s a massive issue and I reckon the Prime Minister realised this when he went to Tasmania on Saturday. He was there to announce a new AFL stadium and he had a bunch of protesters who were saying, ‘hey, we need houses, not a new AFL stadium’.
So, we’re about to welcome 400,000 new migrants to Australia in the next year and the obvious question I know that you’ve been asking, and many others have as well; where are all these people going to live?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Ben, nobody can answer that question, and if you’re sitting in traffic at the moment, if you’re in congestion this afternoon trying to get home to see your kids, you’re going to be asking that question. I mean, why has the government pulled money back from some of those infrastructure projects that we proposed when we were in government at a time when they’re suggesting that the population should increase by such a big number? So not just housing, but it’s congestion, it’s problems at schools where you’ve got capacity.
BEN FORDHAM:
So, would you reduce the migration intake?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, we need again, to get the balance right. We had a sensible migration program when we were in government, a net migration figure around about 150,000 or 160,000 people. You need to address the legitimate concerns of businesses where they can’t find workers…
BEN FORDHAM:
If you were Prime Minister today Peter Dutton, would you reduce the migration intake?
PETER DUTTON:
I would leave it where we were in government. We had the balance right…
BEN FORDHAM:
That means you would have to reduce it?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, the government’s increasing it now and they need to explain how they’re going to provide the housing because at the moment there is no plan for that. So, they’re going to drive up the price of housing further. There’s no supply coming on. One of the huge issues that you’ve got is if you continue to fuel demand for housing through programs that provide incentives to first home buyers – which we’re all in favour of – you need to increase the supply as well, because otherwise you’ve got more people bidding for the same house. You’ve got rents at the moment that are out of control and a lack of rental stock. So, before you make those decisions, you need to address the fundamentals of how you’re going to provide the housing, how the infrastructure is going to increase – the public transport, roads, etc. and the government hasn’t done that work.
BEN FORDHAM:
You’d take the migration levels back to where they were?
PETER DUTTON:
I think you need to put in place the infrastructure before you increase the migration numbers as the government’s proposing. You can’t rip money out of road upgrades if you’re going to increase the number of cars on the road, and that’s what Mr Albanese’s proposing at the moment.
BEN FORDHAM:
I don’t think you’re answering the question on whether or not you would take the migration levels back to where they were?
PETER DUTTON:
Well I’ve said…
BEN FORDHAM:
It’s either yes or no.
PETER DUTTON:
…well, it’s yes that we should continue with that number until you can put in place the infrastructure, provide the housing…
BEN FORDHAM:
With what number? The old number?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, I think there is a lot of science behind the old number. When we were in government…
BEN FORDHAM:
We’ve got a new number now. So, if you’re in government, you’d take the number back?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, I’ve said that I think the more prudent approach is to get in place the infrastructure and the housing availability before you increase the number. That’s the approach that we took when we were in government. Our program was about two thirds skilled, about one third unskilled, and that’s something that served our economy, our country very well for a number of years. The government’s departed from that, and you’re going to see the consequences in communities right across the country.
BEN FORDHAM:
Peter Dutton is our guest in the studio. One of the other big cost blow-outs is the NDIS – a very important scheme – but it’s on track to be $90 billion by 2032 and there are all sorts of issues to do with rorting, but it’s not just about rorting, it’s also about registration. Did you know that only about 10 per cent of providers making money off the NDIS are registered? And we’ve heard some companies say their cost of compliance is more than $1 million for things like risk assessments and insurance and workers screening. But at the same time you’ve got other providers who don’t have to go through that process?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Ben, Bill Shorten’s the Minister at the moment, he’s the one who designed the NDIS when he was a Minister in the Gillard Government. I said in October of last year in my Budget-in-Reply speech, that we would support the government in sensible changes to make sure that the NDIS is sustainable. We’re talking about tens of billions of dollars of taxpayers money here and the rorts and rackets that are continuing to stack up, the government is not addressing them.
I think ultimately, what do we want? We want a system that’s sustainable, that’s going to be able to provide support to those who are most profoundly disabled, those who are most in need. That is something that we all burn for, but if you’ve got a situation where money is being wasted in the tens of millions or hundreds of millions or billions of dollars, then the government has to address that, and so far they refuse to do it, and as I say, I think it’s irresponsible. We would support legislation to tighten it up so that the money can get to those who are most in need. So far the government’s refused that offer.
BEN FORDHAM:
You just heard the story that we shared out of the news at seven o’clock this morning about a judgement in the District Court in New South Wales involving a 31 year old offender who offended against a 14 year old child in a public toilet in Sydney. In the judgement, District Court Justice Alister Abadee switches between calling the offender she and he and at one stage even talks about the offender having a penis, but in the next breath or the same breath saying ‘her penis’. What do you make of this kind of language being used in an official court judgement?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Ben, I read through the judgement. I’ve got to say it’s confusing when you’re switching between genders, but talking about the same person. Somebody’s sexuality is their business and none of mine, but I think reading it, it’s almost comical in a sense, which is tragic because it takes away from the seriousness of the event. This person is a paedophile preying on young people and the focus should be on what is a very serious offence. That person has gone to jail now for four years, but as you read in the judgement, there is a history of offending against young people and I think we need to, as a country, have a much broader discussion about the fact that our kids should enjoy their innocence of childhood as they grow up, not to be offended against, and that the penalty should be very significant to deter this sort of criminal activity. But it detracts from what is a very, very serious offence against a child who will be traumatised for a long time.
BEN FORDHAM:
Just another one before I let you go, is Scott Morrison about to leave federal politics? There’s a report around today that he is in discussions with a UK company in the defence sector. Has he told you that he’s weighing up another job?
PETER DUTTON:
No, no, he hasn’t. These stories appear all the time and as is the case with former prime ministers there’s a lot of speculation around about whether they serve the full term or whether they go out. That ultimately is a question for Scott. He’s representing his community well in the Shire at the moment and I see that speculation, there have been different stories predicting different things. I think at the right time, if he’s to make a decision and an announcement, that’s an issue for him, but at the moment I think he’s enjoying some time with Jenny and the girls, as is his right to do.
BEN FORDHAM:
How are you enjoying yours?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, the joy the Opposition Leader just knows no bounds, I’ve got to say that. But mate, look, I love the job that I’ve got and helping people, being involved in public debates that matter for our country. I get out of bed for that each day, I’m happy to do it.
BEN FORDHAM:
We appreciate you dropping in at the studio. Enjoy Sydney today and we will talk to you again soon.
PETER DUTTON:
Pleasure mate. Thank you.
[ends]