Subjects: Changes to the Coalition Shadow Ministry; the Prime Minister’s Canberra Voice proposal; Alice Springs; Aston by-election; cost of living pressures; the Prime Minister’s broken promise on a $275 cut to your power bills.
E&OE
ANDREW CLENNELL:
Peter Dutton, thanks for joining us. So, you’ve rolled the dice here and given Jacinta Price Indigenous Affairs. What was your thinking behind this?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, Andrew, I mean, firstly, her history, background, her advocacy skills. She’s one of the best communicators in the business. She has a very, I think, strong personality, which is important because in Indigenous communities there are, you know, contested ideas and people need to advocate strongly. I think she’s shown that over her history in public life and I think she’ll be a great contributor to the Coalition.
ANDREW CLENNELL:
How integral has her view on the Voice been in terms of you coming to your own view on it?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, we had a different position than the National Party, obviously they’d formed their view early on. I genuinely approached it with an open mind. I’ve spoken with what must be hundreds of people now, including many Indigenous leaders. I’ve gone through every element of it. I’ve given it, you know, every consideration and been as fair as I possibly can. But I’ve drawn the conclusion – like I think an increasing number of Australians will – that the breadth of this thing is way wider than what we thought on any first assessment.
So, every element of government needs to be consulted on and the Voice will be a huge bureaucracy as a result. I think it has the real potential to grind down the system of government and I fear in all of that, it just becomes another layer of bureaucracy, a Canberra bureaucracy, a voice of the elites, and it’s not going to deliver for those Indigenous people on the ground that we really want to see an improved outcome for.
ANDREW CLENNELL:
Well, with Jacinta Price’s help, do you believe that you can defeat the Voice?
PETER DUTTON:
I believe that the Liberal Party has and the Coalition has a much better plan, and that is constitutional recognition. We want to make sure that we hear from those local and regional people about how we can improve situations on the ground and I believe very strongly that that should be done in legislation, not in the Constitution. So, I strongly advocate for people to vote ‘no’. We’re up to the third form of words that the Prime Minister’s got on the table, maybe a fourth coming, against the advice of, you know, the experts within the government. So, I think there are a lot of reasons why when Australians start to take an interest in the Voice, that they will decide not to support it and I think that’s appropriate because I think the Liberal Party position actually unites the country, whereas the Prime Minister’s position clearly divides the country.
ANDREW CLENNELL:
When did you first discuss this with David Littleproud and do you expect any disquiet, in your Liberal ranks, that you’ve given this portfolio to the Nationals?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, I’ve had a number of discussions with David Littleproud. I just think it’s beltway in terms of, you know, what the percentage numbers are and the rest of it. You want your best people on the paddock. Jacinta is our strongest voice in relation to Indigenous affairs. She has a proven track record. She’s already been out there advocating in relation to the Voice and I think it would have been silly of me to overlook her obvious talent just because of a quota.
I’ve got an incredible amount of depth in my backbench and the outer ministry, many people who could have stepped up, but in the circumstances, the fight now in relation to the Voice, it’s happening here and now, between now and October and we have to be very clear in our messaging. Also, I mean, you’ve heard Jacinta in recent days talking about the scourge of child abuse within Alice Springs and a number of other Indigenous communities. She doesn’t cower.
ANDREW CLENNELL:
And you promoted Kerrynne Liddle as well. Do you think promoting Indigenous women can soften some of the attacks you might come under for opposing the Voice?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, I think if you look at Jacinta’s track record, Jacinta is there on merit. If you look at Kerrynne Liddle’s track record, a very extensive background in a number of areas in corporate life, small business, she’s a very successful person in her own right and I thought she was a natural pick for her portfolio and I think she’ll contribute significantly as well.
ANDREW CLENNELL:
Why is Karen Andrews going?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, Karen had advised me, as I said in my press conference earlier today, she asked for a meeting with me some time ago. I sat down with her and she said that she wasn’t going to contest the next election and that she would be happy to not be considered at the time of the next reshuffle, whenever that might be.
ANDREW CLENNELL:
I guess speaking of retirements, has Scott Morrison indicated to you he’s going soon?
PETER DUTTON:
No, he hasn’t. That’s, you know, a question for Scott. I think he’s responded to that. But, you know, I think he’s enjoying his work as the Member for Cook, and if he has an announcement to make at some stage, I’m sure you’ll get an exclusive, Andrew, but no such news today, I’m sorry!
ANDREW CLENNELL:
Did you try to talk Julian Leeser out of going? Do you think one day there will be a place for him back on the frontbench?
PETER DUTTON:
I think there will be one day. I mean, Julian’s a man of immense talent and character, as he’s demonstrated. I think one of the important things in this debate is that we have respect for people who are adamant ‘yes’ voters for the Voice and adamant ‘no’ voters. I have respect for those that – I disagree with them – but I have respect for those that have decided to support the campaign. But I formed a different judgement and I’ve looked at it very closely. There are some Australians, including in corporate Australia, who have taken a decision to support the Voice before any detail was released. I mean, frankly, that’s more about them trying to, you know, encourage people to like them than it is about what’s in the best interests of our country.
ANDREW CLENNELL:
Alright, well last night Anthony Albanese accused you of misleading your own Party Room in opposing a national voice. This is what he said, he said; ‘I saw Peter Dutton’s press conference that they did after the Party Room and it didn’t reflect the decision that had just been played by the Liberal Party, which was to support local and regional voices and a national voice.’ What do you say to that allegation?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, I mean, it’s like his recall of the conversation that we had, Andrew. I mean, it’s beltway stuff. We’ve made clear our position. I’m standing here in South Australia at the moment, the Labor government here, as is the case in Queensland, and New South Wales and elsewhere, where they’ve adopted a voice model for their own state. They are not putting it into their Constitution, without exception, they’re all putting it into legislation and the Prime Minister is, you know, really? I mean he’s been in Parliament 26 years, he’s a tricky politician, let’s be very honest about it. All these red herrings that are out there at the moment in relation to what’s going on in Alice Springs, what the Liberal Party position is, we’ve been clear we don’t want an elitist model, which is what the Prime Minister’s proposing. It’s a Canberra voice, it’s not going to represent the views of those local communities. In the Calma-Langton Report they made it very clear that you should go to a local and regional model before you go to a national model and the Prime Minister completely disregarded that advice.
ANDREW CLENNELL:
Just on that though, are you suggesting that one day you could go to a national model? Because that certainly wasn’t what you seemed to indicate the other day.
PETER DUTTON:
I’m just saying that my experience in Alice Springs, I’m frustrated if I’m being honest, because I went to see the Prime Minister in private after I got back in October. I mentioned it and you can check the Hansard made reference to the conversation. I called for a Royal Commission. I’d spoken to whistle blowers in Alice Springs.
ANDREW CLENNELL:
I recall this, yes.
PETER DUTTON:
Yeah, and so the thought that I didn’t raise it with him is just, I mean, you know, it just doesn’t make sense and it’s an area that, we’re not playing politics here. I want to see the situation improve. When you go up there and speak to locals, you get a very different take on what’s happening and the responses that are needed, then you do if you’re flying, you know, in the prime ministerial jet on your way to another overseas destination, but not stopping in at these communities. It frustrates me…
ANDREW CLENNELL:
Alright, just on that.
PETER DUTTON:
…that we’re now six months down the track and he hasn’t made any changes.
ANDREW CLENNELL:
I just wanted to clarify something on that, because I’ve read your words on that and I think they can be interpreted two ways. So, it was a suggestion last night, the PM may have been accused by you of knowing about child abuse problems in the NT. Now, last week you said this, you said; ‘I can tell you now if there was a young boy or girl who had been sexually assaulted in Sydney or Melbourne or Brisbane or Canberra, and the police were putting that little white boy or girl back into the hands of the abuser, it would be the front page of every newspaper until the commissioner of that state or territory said it was not going to happen. Yet here somehow it’s accepted as normal practice and we’re destroying the lives of these young indigenous kids and it’s unacceptable, and the Prime Minister needs to take responsibility. He was made aware of it last year. So, when you said this, did you mean then, as was alleged to the PM by a journalist last night, that the PM was made aware a child who was sexually abused, was sent back to their parents? Or is it a more general comment about he was told about the extent of child abuse last year.
PETER DUTTON:
No. I mean, this shows the absurdity of the comments by the Northern Territory Police Minister, who frankly lives in shame because the situation is so volatile in Alice Springs that somebody is going to be killed. Now, we’ve seen two deaths recently, which just by circumstance meant that they were either witnessed or they were in the vicinity of, you know, terrible, terrible scenes. That’s the reality that is happening at the moment – an Indigenous woman being doused with petrol. Another Indigenous woman in a separate incident, alleged to have been stabbed to death by a partner.
I mean, this is you know, I just think we lead a very different life in some of the capital cities, and the point that I made last week was that I would encourage every journalist to get out and speak to people on the streets, walk through those communities, go and visit the town camps as we did, go and speak to the mothers and the grandmothers as we did. That’s how we formed the judgement, and there is a systemic issue in relation to some of the public servants, and I spoke to some of the whistleblowers who are living in this circumstance where they don’t want, or the culture within the department doesn’t allow them to intervene as we would expect in other capital cities and remove those children. Our first obligation is to protect the innocence of that childhood, to protect the innocence of that child and make sure that they’re in a safe environment.
ANDREW CLENNELL:
Certainly.
PETER DUTTON:
Not putting them back into a harmful one, and so systemically…
ANDREW CLENNELL:
Without a doubt.
PETER DUTTON:
…that is a huge problem, and I raised that with the Prime Minister. You know, did I say to him, ‘look, you know, Billy Bloggs was abused on, you know, at 7:03pm last Wednesday night?’ No, that’s not the circumstance and the distraction that has been generated out of this, and the ABC and Fairfax have fallen for it hook, line and sinker.
ANDREW CLENNELL:
Mr Dutton, I haven’t spoken to you since the Aston result. Did that shake your confidence?
PETER DUTTON:
No, not at all. I’ve been in this game a long time, Andrew, and you listen to the messages that are given to you by the electorate. I’ve been in a marginal seat where we’ve won by, you know, 217 votes in the WorkChoices election. I’ve rebuilt it, and, you know, before I came into that seat, it had been held for only one term at a time. I’ve been on the frontbench in government and opposition since 2004. So I bring a very significant experience and I’ve got a great team around me.
We’re less than 12 months into the term of this government. This is not a nine or a 12 year old tired government. There was big change in New South Wales because people thought the government had run their race. We lost in 2022 because we’d been in government for nine years and people decided that there was time for a change. The government still riding high on their honeymoon and I can tell you this wheel turns and it will over the course of the next couple of years.
There are a lot of families at the moment who can’t say that they’re better off today under Labor than they were 12 months ago. I think, sadly, that situation is going to deteriorate for a lot of people and I think they will look again to a Liberal government to restore integrity in the budget process, restore their pathway to a better financial outcome for them and their kids, and you know, there’ll be a lot more that we can offer by the time of the next election as well.
ANDREW CLENNELL:
And just briefly and finally, Jim Chalmers casually mentioned yesterday the government was going to alter the commodity price forecasts in the budget. What do you make of that?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, I mean, that’s Wayne Swan all over again! I mean, don’t forget that Jim Chalmers was the Chief of Staff to Wayne Swan. So, you saw what they did to the budget last time during the Rudd-Gillard period when Swan was the Deputy Prime Minister at one point and the Treasurer, they will pull out every trick possible because in the end what do Labor know how to do best? They know how to tax, they know how to spend.
I really am very concerned for families who are facing huge price increases in their grocery bill, in their insurance bill, in their power bill, in their gas bill, and the Prime Minister said he had a plan. He promised on 97 occasions he’d reduce their power bill by $275 a year. Never been mentioned since, and hopefully it’ll be front and centre in this year’s budget, next month’s budget, I doubt it. So, you know, I think expect to see every trick from Jim Chalmers because he was the understudy to Wayne Swan.
ANDREW CLENNELL:
Peter Dutton, thanks so much for your time.
PETER DUTTON:
Thanks, Andrew. Thank you.
[ends]