Subjects: Ministerial appointments; Labor’s plan to abolish the Cashless Debit Card; the Prime Minister’s broken promise on electricity prices; Vietnam Veterans’ Day; NRL.
MARK LEVY
Every Thursday morning, the Opposition Leader Peter Dutton joins Ray on the Morning Show, and I’m pleased to say the Opposition Leader joins me this morning from Sydney.
Mr Dutton, good morning to you.
PETER DUTTON
Good morning mate, how are you?
MARK LEVY
I’m very well, thank you, sir. Yesterday Scott Morrison gave that hour-long press conference standing by his actions when he secretly took on the five ministerial portfolios. He also defended his decision not to tell his Cabinet colleagues, but when did you first become aware the former Prime Minister had taken on these additional powers?
PETER DUTTON
Well, Mark, not until it was made public, so I found out the same time as everybody else. And, Scott, obviously he’s done the wrong thing here, he’s admitted that, he’s provided an apology to his colleagues, which I think is appropriate. It’s certainly not something I would do if I was Prime Minister, and I think the issue now waits for the legal advice that comes back from the Solicitor-General that the Prime Minister’s commissioned, but I don’t expect that that provides anything further than probably another opportunity for the Prime Minister to have a whack and I think most people, frankly, Mark, want to move on and start dealing with issues that are more important: the rising cost of living. I think there are a lot of pensioners, a lot of self-funded retirees and a lot of families and small businesses out there at the moment who are really starting to tighten up and they wonder why this Government’s not getting on with the job that they were elected to do.
MARK LEVY
I’d agree with you on that; however, it is still a big story and there are people that want some clarity from you know, the former Prime Minister and obviously also, your position given you are now the leader of the Liberals federally. The fact that Mr Morrison kept it from his Cabinet colleagues, I would have thought, suggests he didn’t trust them or there was a massive breakdown in the working relationship within the Government. Would you agree?
PETER DUTTON
Well, I think Scott, in his press conference yesterday, gave reason to his logic as he saw it and the decision that he made, it wasn’t a decision that he made in consultation with any of us, as he’s pointed out. It was the wrong thing to do, and I can understand why many of my colleagues are upset and aggrieved and why people are angry about that, and, as I say, he’s apologised for it and I think, you know, he’s no longer occupying the office and I mean, you can continue to sort of trail over it, but I think most of it’s out there now. People are making their judgments and obviously the Prime Minister has taken the political opportunity. He’s sounded more like an Opposition Leader than a Prime Minister in the last couple of days – I mean, borderline hysterical – but he sees political opportunity, he’s taken it – that’s fair enough, but I think you know, the fact that Scott didn’t gain anything personally out of this, I’ve seen some reports that he would have got extra pay – that’s obviously not the case. It doesn’t make sense to me or logic to me, but that’s a decision that he made, on his own volition at the time and he’s apologised for it, and I hope that we can get back to things that matter now.
MARK LEVY
Let me ask you this, though Mr Dutton. I mean, yesterday, the former PM repeatedly said he took on the additional powers as a precaution, in case any of the ministers in those portfolios were unable to fulfill their duties during the pandemic. But you contracted Covid in March of 2020 – while you were the then Home Affairs Minister, you were even hospitalised yet the Prime Minister didn’t take on the Home Affairs powers until May of 2021 when Karen Andrews was the Minister. So I guess the point I’m trying to make is, surely that doesn’t make sense, if he was so concerned only about the health of ministers impacting their ability to work. Do you see where I’m coming from?
PETER DUTTON
I understand the point, Mark, and obviously, as you recall then back in that day, there was no vaccine; and people were dying in significant numbers in Europe and North America and Asia, etc. and we were receiving pretty dire reports and advice from the chiefs of all of the agencies from the Chief of Defence Force, to the Chief Medical Officer etc. and we had to deal with those issues. Now at that stage it was a mandatory arrangement that you had to be admitted to hospital, which I was. I worked from there just on the video conferencing device that I had from my department and then when I went back to quarantine – I think 26 days in total I had at that stage, but I just worked from home and we were working around the clock on the video conferencing device and phone conferences and all the rest of it. But, you’re right, it’s a decision that Scott was able to justify.
Look in my mind, I think there’s a difference, if I’m being frank, between the decision around health and perhaps finance in sort of the heady days of dealing with Covid and there was real concern, particularly about the powers that vested in one individual, in the Health Minister at that stage under the Biosecurity Act to make all sorts of directions. It wasn’t reviewable, the Prime Minister of the day couldn’t have a say in it, and I understand, you know, Scott’s argument in relation to that, but the fact that went on into other portfolios, Treasury, etc. is clearly unacceptable, and we’ve been very clear about that. Scott’s apologised for it, and that’s as it is.
MARK LEVY
It just seems, it just seems very strange. Just one last point on that; it seems strange that, you know, it’s not okay when you’re the Home Affairs Minister, but when Karen Andrews is the Home Affairs Minister, he needs to parachute himself into that portfolio. That’s, I guess, where I’m coming from. Just two quick ones on this before we move on to other things. If the Prime Minister at the time came to you and said, ‘Peter, what I’m going to do is I’m going to swear myself into these portfolios.’ What would have been your response as a senior minister within the Morrison Government. What would have been your response to the Prime Minister?
PETER DUTTON
Well, look whether it’s frankly Scott or Malcolm before that or Tony before that, I was a junior Minister, I was the Assistant Treasurer in the Howard Government. I’ve always taken the view that you provide frank advice to the leader of the day, to the Prime Minister of the day and that’s the way that I’ve conducted myself. Sometimes you get a pretty blunt response when they don’t like the advice that you’re giving, but my job is to be a loyal member of that Cabinet or of that Ministry, and to provide frank advice to the Prime Minister of the day and that’s how I’ve conducted myself and how I continue to do it, into the future and what I would expect from my ministers, if I’m able to be elected Prime Minister at the next election.
So, that’s the approach that I’ve taken. I would have been very frank in my advice to Scott at the time that it’s inappropriate for him to be to be assuming this power. There was adequate time, in my judgment, in the circumstances to swear another minister in, if somebody was sick, or on their deathbed, etc. but these are the judgments that Scott made, and in particular, as I say, at the beginning of Covid, I mean, we were about to set up morgues adjacent to hospitals. We were talking about sending police and army personnel to turn large lines of people away from emergency departments, ambulances weren’t going to turn up. We had one model at the time to dispense medicines across the country to older people who didn’t want to leave their homes. It was a pretty – as has been pointed out – a war-like situation…
MARK LEVY
I don’t think anyone, I don’t think anyone’s discrediting that Mr Dutton. I mean, I think we’re just trying to sort of get a bit of clarity on this situation. Just one more on it, because I do want to touch on a couple of other things while I’ve got you and I appreciate your time on this Thursday morning. The Australian’s reporting that senior Coalition frontbencher Karen Andrews has doubled down on calls for Mr Morrison to resign, arguing transparency is incredibly important. She’s also revealed that Mr Morrison has not reached out to her to apologise. I’ve also got a story here in front of me – former Nationals Cabinet Minister Bridget McKenzie calling on Mr Morrison to apologise to Ms Andrews saying it was the right thing to do. She also says Mr Morrison’s actions were a breach of the standing Coalition agreement. Is Ms McKenzie right?
PETER DUTTON
Well Mark, back to my earlier comment. I mean my colleagues are rightly angry and aggrieved and I understand that, and Karen’s expressed that, you’ve just quoted Bridget as well has expressed that publicly and again today and I understand their frustration, and Scott has made the wrong call. He’s apologised for it, and if he hasn’t spoken to Karen, then I believe he should. But that’s as I judge it, and I said before, that we wait for the legal advice and that’s the process that should be adhered to. I don’t believe that Scott has acted illegally. There was nothing that he gained from it in a personal sense. There’s no scandal here, around decisions that were made for profit for somebody or for somebody that he knew or anything of that nature, at all. It was it was an error of judgment, a very serious one, and our Party is rightly hurt by that and upset, as many people in the public are. But as I say, as I move around the country, in Tasmania this week, in Victoria, in New South Wales today, I’m back to Tasmania at the end of the week. People are really hurting, and I think there are a lot of people, frankly, sitting around kitchen tables at the moment, who are hearing all this story and realise it’s a serious issue. But they can’t pay their power bill, which has gone up under a Prime Minister who promised it would go down. The gas bill is going up, they’re paying $2-plus a litre for fuel at the bowser and they know that things are going to get tighter and they’re concerned, as I am, but a bad situation is going to be made worse by a government that just doesn’t know what to do with a very serious situation that’s going to confront our country over the next couple of years.
MARK LEVY
Mr Dutton, on to other things. It seems Annastacia Palaszczuk has dropped some of her priorities now that Anthony Albanese is in the Lodge. She’s already softened on her demands for 50/50 hospital funding. I do want to ask you, though, on a separate matter, the current Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has been called a hypocrite this morning over his failure to consult with indigenous leaders about plans to scrap the Cashless Welfare Card while pursuing a Voice to Parliament. He doesn’t want to hear any voices that disagree with him on this, it seems.
PETER DUTTON
I think you’re right, Mark. I mean, this is, again, another example of making a bad situation worse in indigenous communities. You’ve got children, boys and girls, being subjected to sexual assault. You’ve got incredible numbers around domestic violence, which are just a national shame. Everybody wants to see that violence come to an end, part of the way that you can do that is to introduce the Cashless Debit Card, which we did, which stopped money being spent on drugs and on alcohol, and meant that it was spent on groceries and food for kids to lead a better life. As Noel Pearson’s pointed out again this week, this abolition of the welfare card, it doesn’t make any sense. The Prime Minister’s provided no logical explanation as to why he’s abolishing it, and we are going to see a higher incidence of family violence and abuse within these communities and the Prime Minister will be responsible for that and I don’t understand the logic, he won’t come out and explain it. It was a card which was designed to keep people safe and to reduce violence in communities and it’s a very bad decision, and, frankly, it’s one that he should reverse.
MARK LEVY
Yep, I agree with you. Mr Dutton, let’s finish up on a really important one. Today’s Vietnam Veterans’ Day and the Anniversary of the Battle of Long Tan on this day in 1966.
PETER DUTTON
Well, it’s an incredibly important day. It’s one that our country should recognise, I think, in greater number. I’m going to Vietnam Veterans’ Day service today and it will be an important recognition of the sacrifice that those who went to Vietnam made for our country. They fought against communism. There were 500 people who lost their lives and thousands more who came back and are still today wearing the mental scars of that. Many of our Vietnam veterans were treated appallingly when they returned home. It was a national disgrace, and we should recognise the suffering that has taken place, for them and for their families since that time and I always commemorate Vietnam Veterans’ Day because I think it’s an important day on our calendar for our veterans and I want to be out there supporting them today.
MARK LEVY
Well said, well said. Hey, by the way, before you go, it seems everyone’s got an opinion or are hearing rumours re the NRL Grand Final. Can you tell me where we’re playing the biggest game of the season, Mr Dutton? No one else can tell me!
PETER DUTTON
Mike, it’s a great question, mate. I mean there’s a bidding war going on at the moment and if you know anything about Peter V’landys, he will squeeze every last drop out of that deal. So, I just hope the Broncs are there in the final. They had a good game on the weekend, but yeah, I mean everyone wants to, you know, every state wants to – certainly Queensland and New South Wales – want to host the final, but hopefully they can get it resolved and fans will know what the deal is.
MARK LEVY
Well, if yesterday was D-Day, today’s golden point extra time.
Mr Dutton, I appreciate your time. Ray will be back next week. Thanks, mate.
PETER DUTTON
Thanks, mate. Take care.
[ends]