THE HON PETER DUTTON MP
LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
FEDERAL MEMBER FOR DICKSON
TRANSCRIPT
INTERVIEW WITH DAVID PENBERTHY AND WILL GOODINGS,
BREAKFAST, RADIO FIVEaa
16 February 2024
Subjects: Cashless Debit Card; energy; nuclear power; the Prime Minister’s engagement news.
E&OE…………………………………………………………………………………………
QUESTION:
We’re joined live in the studio by the Leader of the Opposition Peter Dutton. Peter Dutton, good morning to you.
QUESTION:
Good to have you here, Mr Dutton.
PETER DUTTON:
My pleasure.
QUESTION:
First chance we’ve had to chat to you, for what’s going to be a pretty big year politically.
If you don’t mind, we want to start with something local that I think it’s a local story that has national ramifications. We had one of your MPs, Rowan Ramsey, the Member for the far north seat of Grey, on the show yesterday, and it was less a political interview, more sort of grassroots tales from a city that is in the throes of some really unpleasant lawlessness at the moment.
One of the things he raised and he said he doesn’t see it as the ultimate sort of ‘silver bullet’, but he’s wondering why we don’t bring back the cashless debit card. Is that something you think should be looked at in towns like Ceduna? Would you, as Prime Minister, move towards reintroducing those cashless welfare cards?
PETER DUTTON:
Penbo, the short answer is yes, and it’s because it works and it’s been demonstrated to work. I think somebody like Rowan Ramsey, who is just a down to earth, roll your sleeves up guy; he’s not playing politics here, he’s got a real passion for his community. He’s seen the before and after – and it’s not just in Ceduna – if you go to Leonora, Laverton in rural WA for example, other places in the Northern Territory, in Far North Queensland, where there’s an alcohol management problem, where you’ve got drugs coming into the community, people exploiting the money that’s going into those Indigenous communities, the violence that results from having withdrawn the card.
So the evidence was that when the card was being used, people were buying food, they were buying fresh fruit, they were supporting their families. When the card goes, the money gets spent on grog and drugs, and the food’s not being purchased or prepared for the kids, and it’s a human tragedy.
So yes, there’s a very strong argument for it, and the Government really had no compelling argument as to why they abolished it, only that it was a philosophical thing for them, claiming that it was racist to have Indigenous people, or people with drug dependency, etc., on one of these cards.
QUESTION:
Amanda Rishworth, I spoke to her last night and it doesn’t sound like her position’s changed at all, but she said as far as the Government’s concerned, there was no evidence that the cards made any difference.
PETER DUTTON:
Well, I just don’t know how you can sort of look someone in the eye and say that because it’s not true. The evidence out of the Northern Territory, out of South Australia as well, is very clear and go and have a chat to the Mayor from Laverton or Leonora, or people who live in the communities. The spike in violence is evidenced by the police activity, and as I said, there was never any argument from the Government as to why they were withdrawing it, only that they thought that this was a discriminatory policy and that just didn’t make any sense.
QUESTION:
These storms in Victoria yesterday knocked out – at one point in time – power to 500,000 odd homes. It’s reignited a debate about Australia’s energy security, and appreciating that was obviously a storm, it does revive questions about what contingency there is in the system, what’s available. The Prime Minister today is touring the Liddell Power Station. What’s your plan for getting Australia to net zero emissions by 2050, at the same time as building in enough contingency that we don’t see events like that?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, as we’ve seen in Victoria, but obviously here in South Australia, elsewhere across the country as well, we can’t just hope that the lights are going to stay on. There needs to be proper planning and it’s long term planning that’s required in the network.
I don’t believe that the Government can meet their zero-50 target without the ability to firm up renewables, and the Prime Minister’s 100 per cent renewable policy just doesn’t work. The technology is not there for the solar panels to work of a night time, or for the turbines to turn when the wind’s not blowing. That is just the reality. I want to believe that the battery technology, or that Green Hydro is going to be a solution – maybe at some stage it will – but at the moment we don’t have a credible pathway as a country to get to 2050.
I believe very strongly that we have to firm up renewables in the system. We have a bigger and growing issue in regional communities, because nobody in the city wants a 260 metre wind turbine, but people in those rural areas, rightly, are expressing concern about amenity, the things only last for 20 years. So we have to have a realistic conversation about what that future looks like.
But the question is; what firms up renewables in the system? There are 20 countries in the world, top 20 economies, the G20, Australia is the only country that doesn’t have nuclear power domestically, or has not signed up to it.
I think the Prime Minister needs to take part in a mature conversation about why in America they’re paying a third of the cost for their energy, compared to what we are here in Australia.
We’re telling businesses at the moment to ramp down the afternoon shift because – not because they’re out of business, they can’t meet their orders – but because they’re worried about people turning up after work, switching on the air conditioner, throwing clothes into the washing machine, starting dinner, and they’re worried about blackouts.
We should be trying to help those companies ramp up because there’s extra economic activity, extra jobs created, and this fantasy that we can run an economy on 100 per cent renewables, that requires 28,000km of new poles and wires. It’s just not realistic.
QUESTION:
In terms of nuclear power, that’s something you’ve been quite clear about. Our Premier here is a bit of a loner in the Labor ranks. He’s on the record as saying we need to have a mature and open minded conversation about it.
Is that something you see, Peter Dutton, where SA with its remoteness and its geographic stability, could we play a significant role in the creation of a nuclear industry nationally?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, already you do in relation to supplying the market with some of the minerals required, obviously. Full credit to the Premier, there are few within Labor – Bob Hawke was one who was strongly in favour of nuclear – John Howard’s strongly in favour of nuclear, and I just think the reality is that as you look at places, not just in Europe, who obviously were affected by the Ukraine conflict there, but also in the Middle East, in Asia, in North America, all of those economies are adopting the technology, because as we know with the AUKUS submarine, it’s the latest technology in the world. The submarine can sit at bottom of the ocean for months at a time, running off the nuclear propulsion system that we’ve signed up to, we have the ability to do that in a responsible way, because it’s zero emissions.
This is what gives it away; if we want to reduce our emissions – Greta Thunberg now is in favour of nuclear energy, many Greens Parties are in favour of nuclear energy – it’s a modern technology, it’s not the 1950s or 1960s. The car today is very different from one of 60 years ago, and so it is with the nuclear technology as well.
So, I’m with Peter, I just think you’ve got to have a mature conversation about it, understand why it’s right for 19 comparable countries and economies, but not for ours.
QUESTION:
I’d love to hear what you think, folks: 8223 0000 about the nuclear debate. We know you’re on a tight schedule, Mr Dutton, just before we let you go, though, Do you reckon you’re going to get a get a flag to Albo’s wedding.
PETER DUTTON:
Well, I’m just putting it out there – I did Today show with Bill Shorten this morning, I think it’d be great for Bill and I to organise the buck’s party. We both have Albo’s best interests at heart. We would both take care of him. We’d both make sure he turned up to work the next day…
QUESTION:
Be like the bloke disappearing in the hangover, I think.
PETER DUTTON:
Maybe just coming back with one tooth, or maybe it might be just loose…
QUESTION:
Maybe a face-tat?
PETER DUTTON:
Yeah, maybe a face-tat. But, I’m not sure I am going to get a ticket, but I’ll be there on the side of the road, waving the flag as the royal party goes by. It’ll all be good.
QUESTION:
Good stuff. Peter Dutton, thanks for joining us this morning in the studio.
PETER DUTTON:
Thanks guys.
[ends]