Subjects: Visit to Alice Springs; the Prime Minister’s Canberra Voice proposal; Julian Leeser; The Prime Minister’s plan to not attend the NATO Summit.
E&OE.
JACINTA PRICE:
Good morning everyone. It’s day two now of Peter’s visit here in Alice Springs. We’ve been able to listen to a lot of locals, a lot of community members on the ground – from parents, concerned business people, the tourism operators in our community – and the message is pretty clear. The message is clear that not enough is being done in our community of Alice Springs. We know that it’s not just Alice Springs that has these sorts of concerns, that there are concerns right across the Northern Territory that the reaction from the Prime Minister’s visit last time might have caused a little bit of down time in terms of the alcohol restrictions in place, but it hasn’t spoken to the issues of the children on our streets every single night.
Last night was another big night where there were break-ins, where there were crimes being committed, where there was things going on within our CBD, that’s nothing new. It’s really unfortunate that locals are certainly using words like they’re feeling ‘desensitised to the issue’, and that is greatly concerning because when you become desensitised, you’ve almost lost hope. You’re just getting used to what’s going on. We have heard terms like ‘failed state’, you know, the Territory is now a failed state. We want to bring people here because us locals are here for a reason. We love this community. We love the landscape. We love the people in our hometown. We love the fact that there is plenty of opportunity if we are given that opportunity and we need our Prime Minister to understand that there are needs that are not being met in this town. Things are not changing.
I know that Peter’s spoken about the fact that the AFP are prepared to lend a hand, to come in to the Northern Territory. We know that Reece Kershaw, who was a former Police Commissioner in our community, knows what’s going on, on the ground, knows the Northern Territory and is prepared to offer support. So we are asking, we’re calling upon the Territory government, we are calling upon the Federal government to listen to the locals, to listen to those who have the opportunity to lend a hand for places like Alice Springs. Community safety, this is the number one issue that we are hearing about and there are those in the community who are saying it’s our right to feel safe, but when a community can’t even feel safe, then we have a failed state on our hands. It means our economies become diminished. When our economy becomes diminished, we don’t have the opportunity to employ people, to keep things going, to keep things functioning.
We can’t just be a territory that is heavy with a bureaucracy, heavy with a public service and, you know, business owners, private business people, small family businesses shutting down and leaving because they are creating jobs for our communities. There is so much opportunity, as we know, as we have heard from Tourism Central Australia, there is plenty of opportunity. There is opportunity for entrepreneurs, for Indigenous entrepreneurs, but that’s just not allowed to flourish under these current conditions, the Territorians, those of us from Alice Springs are suffering under.
So I’m really grateful that Peter has been here to hear these concerns because community members are just crying out for support. And so myself and Peter will go back and fight for that in Canberra and we will call upon the Territory government to do what they know needs to be done, but are just too scared because of their own political futures to actually do something about this situation. Thank you.
PETER DUTTON:
Well firstly, I just want to say thank you very much to Jacinta. We’ve had a really enlightening, but not surprising engagement with the community over the last two days. It’s heartbreaking to hear some of the stories, particularly from locals who are really concerned for their own safety, for the safety of their parents, of their kids. This is one of the most beautiful parts of our country, and I always feel a great privilege whenever I come to Alice Springs or to the Northern Territory. There would be many more Australians who would want to come to the Northern Territory, but at the moment are making a decision not to. In fact we’ve spoken to a number of locals who are making a decision to leave and to relocate to some other part of the Northern Territory or indeed to another part of the country. That is devastating because if you look at the tourism numbers at the moment, the tourism numbers we were told about that just came out from the Easter period, they’re down by 40 per cent.
Now, Natasha Fyles can say that there is nothing to see here in Alice Springs and the Prime Minister can refuse to come up here and spend any tangible, real engagement with the people on the ground here in Alice Springs, but that doesn’t mean that there isn’t a problem. When you move around the community and as we walk the streets talking to people about their own issues, there is a common theme here. You can’t have a situation where the rule of law only applies to some, but not others in a community. You can’t have a situation where people have a fear and a lot of people have spoken to us about this sort of curfew that is self-imposed, where they get home and lock themselves in their homes and that is a terrible situation and it wouldn’t be tolerated in any other part of the country, certainly not in any capital city. We were speaking to a business owner this morning who gave the unbelievable account of the fact that in his block, in the building where his business is, in January of this year, they were broken into on 18 separate occasions. I mean think about that. What, in Brisbane or Sydney or Hobart or Perth, I mean would that be tolerated? There would be public outrage and somehow we’re treating Territorians as second class citizens under this government and it has to stop.
You need to restore law and order. That’s the first thing that needs to happen. The fact is that the Prime Minister promised $250 million when we first raised this issue back in October. There is no evidence of that money being spent on the ground and speaking to a lot of operators and those who deliver services on the ground here, their view is that there’s still a committee stage going on about where that money will be spent. Linda Burney will say ‘well, wait for the Voice and the Voice will sort it out’. The Voice vote is in October of this year and then there is a six month consultation period proposed if the Voice gets up to work out what the design of the Voice actually is, which is a cart before the horse situation, but that’s a separate discussion. So you’re talking about mid-next year. The bureaucracy will then have to be formed around the Voice, so that’ll take you out to the end of calendar ’24 and you’ve got kids here tonight who are going to be sexually abused or families where domestic violence has now become a current occurrence and we’re told that nothing could be done about it. I just find it completely and utterly deplorable.
The emotion, the people that we’ve spoken to in tears about a town that they love being torn apart by the lawlessness that they’re seeing play out before their own eyes. The video of kids running rampant in the local CBD. Somebody is going to be killed here and somebody was killed here in 2021. Somebody obviously has lost their life tragically, equally tragic in Darwin, but we are going to see further tragedy here. And unless the Prime Minister steps in and restores law and order, that can only be done by supplementing the efforts of the Northern Territory Police with the Australian Federal Police. I call again on the Prime Minister to make sure that that is an action that’s rolled out.
If Natasha Fyles, the Chief Minister is saying there’s nothing to see in Alice Springs then the Prime Minister should overrule her because he should listen to the people on the ground here, and start to restore some dignity to protect these kids from continued violation of their own human rights, and make sure that people can do what they want to do as they would in any other part of the country. Take their kids to school, go to the park, go out to a restaurant, be involved in life in Alice Springs. That’s what they want to do and it’s what we would expect for any Australian and the Prime Minister really needs to step up and to step in here and make sure that we can see a better future for Alice Springs. I’m happy to take your questions.
QUESTION:
Do you think the Northern Territory Government is too proud and that’s why we haven’t seen the Australian Federal Police brought in?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, it’s a really good question. I’ve asked a lot of people that we’ve met with who have had the consistent advice to us about what needs to be done. You know, if you find somebody who’s taken ill, or in a car accident, the first issue to deal with is the danger present, to remove them from that danger and at the moment, until you get police on the streets and the services that are required, you’re not going to be able to address the dysfunction that is occurring on a daily basis here. I’ve said to these people, I don’t understand, if it’s as obvious to you as it is to me, what is the Chief Minister doing? Why is the Prime Minister refusing to act? I mean why? They just don’t have the answer.
There’s obviously a local view about the divide between Darwin and Alice Springs. There’s a view about the politics here in Alice Springs and the Chief Minister refusing to act for that reason. Another lady suggested to us there were cultural reasons as to why the Chief Minister won’t act, but I’m really at a loss to understand why there’s not a great sense of urgency to help the people of Alice Springs from our Prime Minister and from the Chief Minister. But shining a light on it; it’s difficult because we want to talk in glowing terms about the experience of somebody coming to live in Alice Springs or coming to work here or to visit, but at the moment, that’s not the view of the locals, and I’m not going to lie to the Australian people or mislead them about the reality of what’s on the ground.
QUESTION:
You mention again today the so-called ‘rampant rates’ of child sexual abuse in Central Australia. Now we’ve seen the SNAICC, which advocates for Indigenous children, come out and strongly reject your call for a Royal Commission into that. They’ve labelled it an uninformed approach. Why do you think those kind of peak bodies are rejecting those calls by you, and what evidence do you have that there is this so-called ‘rampant child sexual abuse’ occurring in remote central Australia?
PETER DUTTON:
I mean with respect, that’s such an ABC question. Do you live locally? Do you speak to people on the streets to hear what it is they’re saying to you? I mean do you believe…
QUESTION:
I live locally.
PETER DUTTON:
You live locally? You don’t believe there’s any problem here?
QUESTION:
No. I’m asking you, what evidence do you have that there is…
PETER DUTTON:
…well, I’ve spoken to the police and the social workers, some of whom are out on stress leave at the moment because of the scenes that they’ve endured. They have kids taking them back into homes where they’ve been sexually assaulted and six year olds grabbing on to their legs, screaming not to be left there. So they’re the people who are on the frontline. I don’t know what the academics are saying. I don’t know what the bureaucrats are saying. I can tell you though, what the human experience is on the front line and if the ABC and others don’t see fit to report that, then frankly, I think it reflects more on the ABC than it does on the locals here, and I don’t think you’re doing your job if you’re denying the reality of the circumstances on the ground.
QUESTION:
I’m not denying the reality. I’m asking you, what data are you using to support your claims here? You’re speaking to…
PETER DUTTON:
I’ve answered that question, so if there’s a more sensible one, I’d be happy to take it.
JACINTA PRICE:
Sorry, can I just say that I think the questions need to be put back on organisations like SNAICC, who are tasked to uphold the human rights of Indigenous children, but instead run an ideological line that it’s more important that these children are supposed to be connected to country and to culture than to actually have their human rights upheld. I mean the data that I know of suggests otherwise, that Indigenous children experience the highest rates of abuse in the nation and the children – particularly in places like remote communities – are those children that are suffering the most. I would ask organisations like SNAICC to do their job appropriately and actually put the human rights of Indigenous children at the forefront of what they’re attempting to do, but all the rhetoric that I hear is about, ‘oh, we’ve got to support families’, ‘you’ve got to make sure you don’t remove the children from dysfunctional circumstances, help the families’, but while you’re attempting to help the family, the children are still suffering in those circumstances.
When I hear from foster parents, some who have taken in two year olds, who they’ve taken straight after they have been sexually abused and are having to deal with a child in that context, in bathing that child and seeing for themselves what they’re experiencing, seeing the damage that’s been done to those children, when I have heard from surgeons who won’t speak openly, but talk about sewing up babies after being sexually abused, that is what I am concerned with. I’m not concerned with ideology and this nonsense that organisations like SNAICC try to put the responsibility back on governments or try to silence those of us fighting for the rights of these children. I know of children in my own extended family, I know of children in other people’s families, everybody knows what’s going on and I won’t be part of the silencing. I know Peter won’t be part of the silencing.
We are here to fight for those children’s rights, not to maintain the dignity of adults who feel ashamed about the situation. Because if we don’t get to this, I mean, the children on our streets are a result of the failure to protect them when they were younger. That’s why they’re out on our streets. What’s SNAICC doing about that? What are they doing? Because they’re funded to uphold their human rights, to deal with this situation, to ensure that these kids – when they’re abused like that, they end up on the road to incarceration in no time at all. That’s what’s leading them to incarceration. It’s not colonisation. It’s not racism. It is because of the dysfunction that they’re being born into and left in because authorities are too scared of organisations like SNAICC calling them racist to actually do something about upholding their human rights as children.
So I put it back on SNAICC to do their job more effectively, to uphold the human rights of Indigenous children. Stop separating them, as we’re treating them different to other Australian children and treat them like Australian citizens with the same rights as all children in this nation should have.
QUESTION:
Mr Dutton, there has been some criticism over the fact that you’ve only come to the NT’s defence now. What did you do while you were in Cabinet for the NT?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, there’s an enormous amount of money and effort that was put in over many decades. There’s no question about that. So, there’s a great will from Labor and Liberal politicians, frankly, to deal with this problem. The fact is that we are here in this day, we brought this particular issue to the attention of the Prime Minister in October of last year, and it continues to compound, and it really is at a desperate point. I just think we should be very honest about the reality of what is happening here on the ground, and as I say, I just don’t think it would be tolerated in any capital city around the country.
So, I think there’s good intent, but I also take up Jacinta’s point, which is very, very well made. I worked as a police officer many years ago in the sex offenders area, and I can tell you, putting a child back into that scenario is nothing about Aboriginal culture, Indigenous culture. The rights of that child trump any other consideration. If we were in any other capital city around the country, the thought that you would put a young child who had been sexually abused back into the hands of the perpetrator, there would be public outrage, and rightly so. There are many cases where lives have been destroyed – countless cases, as Jacinta points out. There are psychological issues, there are issues around forming relationships, there are issues around steady employment, and so there’s a huge cost – not just the human cost of this for society if we just pretend it’s not happening.
QUESTION:
Mr Dutton, did you go out on the streets of Alice last night and see sort what’s happening out there?
PETER DUTTON:
We went out for a drive last night, but we weren’t walking the streets last night. But obviously there’s been additional activity overnight, as Jacinta pointed out, and as we heard this morning from some of the business owners. It’s confronting, it really is, and some of the video that we’ve seen of the activity at night as well, I think has been jarring and I think shining a light on what is happening here is the only way that we’re going to see positive change.
QUESTION:
What’s your reaction to seeing, you know, sometimes, quite often, young children out late at night with their parents and also young teenagers roaming around. What’s your reaction to that?
PETER DUTTON:
Well again, there needs to be an adherence to the rule of law. There needs to be an obligation for parents to look after their children. There needs to be an obligation on the services who are funded to provide the services that they’ve committed to providing. There needs to be a very significant law and order effort. Again, a few of the people we spoke to said that the only time that they’ve felt safe recently is during the operation that the Northern Territory Police had here a few months ago where there was a change in behaviour and they felt safer in their own community. They believe it’s reverted back to as it was since then.
So, I want to say that I am shocked and surprised by it, but I’m not, because it’s exactly what we heard in October when we were here and I just want it to change, I mean that’s the motivation. As I said, it’s always a great honour to come onto this country and I want to see the best outcome for those young kids. I want those young kids to enjoy the same upbringing as any of our kids, that they have a safe place to sleep of a night time, that they’re fed, that they have a good education, that they’re shown the opportunities that we would expect of any family environment. At the moment, the kids aren’t getting that, and that’s why they’re out causing crime of a night time and it’s a situation that has to be addressed and urgently so.
QUESTION:
What policies is your Party putting forward to invest in Alice Springs?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, we’ve made the very significant call on the Prime Minister to support the services here. I did it In October and I’ve repeated it again on this trip. The circumstances here in Alice Springs, in Tennant Creek and other parts of the Northern Territory are beyond the capacity of the Northern Territory Government to negotiate. That’s the reality, and it’s not a slight on the Labor Government or the CLP if they were in government, they don’t have the resources to deal with the gravity of what we’re facing here in the Northern Territory.
In Alice Springs, the police, you know again, talking about the amount of jobs, it can take a week before the forensic police turn up to a crime scene. We were talking to a lady in a café yesterday who’s been broken into in six times. The police just didn’t have the resources to turn up on a couple of occasions. Again, that wouldn’t be tolerated in Sydney or Melbourne or Brisbane and what hope do you have of deterring others from committing those crimes or those perpetrators from committing additional crimes, if the police aren’t even turning up to investigate it?
So, the resource element around policing, around the family services, the support for kids to try and divert them from incarceration – so programs otherwise that get them off the streets of a night time – we have a policy of a boarding school, a boarding house at one of the local schools here an $8.5 million investment so that those kids can be fed, and so that they can have somewhere that is safe for them to sleep of a night time. We support wholeheartedly any efforts that the Prime Minister would make in that direction. But you need to deal with the here and now of the safety issue. The breakdown in law and order needs to be addressed by an additional police presence, because if you don’t, we’re going to end up with more deaths and nobody wants to see that. It’s not a partisan issue or a political point. We’ll work very closely with the government in whatever way is possible to see a better outcome here in Alice Springs.
QUESTION:
Is it fair that Territorians votes in the referendum don’t have the same count as states, so when it does come to the Voice, it would come down to the states?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, it’s obviously an historical anomaly in a sense because the value of the territories is no different to the value of the states, and Territorians are no different to Australians who live in Tasmania or Perth or anywhere else. So again, people have expressed that view to us on the ground. I understand their angst about it. There would be a constitutional change required for it. The government is obviously not proposing that at the moment, but people in the Northern Territory should be treated equally to those in my home state of Queensland or WA or anywhere else.
QUESTION:
Do you think the Prime Minister should go to the NATO summit in Lithuania?
PETER DUTTON:
Yes, I do. Look, I think this is a very serious issue. It’s a very significant point in history. There is obviously, by China’s own actions, a military build up, the training exercises – that causes not just Australia concern – but others in the Indo-Pacific. It obviously causes the US and the UK significant concern, but Europe now is very worried about the relationship under President Xi with President Putin. It is important for the Prime Minister to represent our interests and our views at the NATO meeting.
NATO, you know, doesn’t take an active interest in our part of the world without good reason and they are concerned about what they’re seeing at the moment. I think it’s important, particularly given the support that Australia has given to Ukraine to be there around the table. We’re seen as a trusted, commonsense voice. We are part of an ANZAC alliance and we have obviously the Quad with Japan and with India, but we have very significant and deep relationships with other partners as well and it is important for Australia to be there and I would very much encourage and support the Prime Minister’s attendance at that meeting.
QUESTION:
Do you think he’s cosying up to China by not going?
PETER DUTTON:
I don’t understand why the Prime Minister is not going. I think it would be good to hear from him as to why he doesn’t want to go. It’s not that he doesn’t like overseas travel. He’s been overseas a lot and I think this is in our country’s interest for him to go on this trip and not to send a low level bureaucrat. I think it’s important, as I say, it’s an important point in history, but it’s important for our own equities and interests to see him represent our country at that meeting.
QUESTION:
Julian Leeser has been receiving a lot of credit for standing up for his morals. Don’t you need him on your frontbench?
PETER DUTTON:
Julian’s pointed out that his position is at odds with the overwhelming majority of my Party Room and he’s taken a decision to resign from the frontbench for that reason, and that’s appropriate. If he was in the Labor Party, of course he would have to resign from the Labor Party. The Labor Party don’t allow their backbenchers the freedom of expressing what it is they believe, they’re required to toe the party line. One of the great traditions of the Liberal Party is that we have the ability as a backbencher to express views that are contrary to the official Party position. It’s been something that was part of Menzies’ ideals when he set the party up and certainly something that I strongly support. All right, thank you very much.
[ends]