Subjects: Visit to Shoal Bay; the Coalition puts the local community first in decision to scrap Port Stephens Offshore Wind Zone; Labor’s energy policy shambles; nuclear energy; Labor’s cost of living crisis; Albanese Government abandons Israel at the UN; the disgraceful and abhorrent Ripponlea synagogue attack overnight in Melbourne; the rise of anti-Semitism in Australia; election date speculation.
E&OE.
RICHARD KING:
It’s now time to find out what’s on the mind of Opposition Leader Peter Dutton, who joins me now. Good morning, Mr Dutton.
PETER DUTTON:
Good morning, Richard.
RICHARD KING:
Thanks for your time this morning. You were in my area yesterday – up at Port Stephens, and you’ve said that if the Coalition’s elected – and according to the latest, well certainly The Daily Telegraph says you’re on track for that, so it’s a nice way to start the weekend – that you’d immediately cancel this proposed offshore wind farm here in the Hunter Valley. Why? Why will you cancel it, Mr Dutton?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, Richard, we’re in favour of renewables, but we need to have baseload power as well to keep the lights on 24/7, and we need to have renewables which are economically viable but also environmentally sensible.
There has been no real transparency to the environmental impact of these 260 metre wind turbines off the coast on the marine life and on the ocean floor, etc. I think there were very significant concerns about the consultation process and we’ve been listening to the local small business people, the tourist operators, the commercial fishers, those that are doing charters, and there really has been a very high level of anger that the Federal Government just hasn’t engaged adequately or answered the reasonably-asked questions. That’s why we’ve listened to the community. We’ve been up there on a number of occasions, and myself and Ted O’Brien and Laurence Antcliff, we’ve listened to the community. I think we’ve acted in a responsible way by saying that we wouldn’t proceed with this project or with this zone.
RICHARD KING:
But given that when this was first announced, the Government asked for expressions of interest from companies that might be interested in establishing them, and it would appear that there aren’t too many left! It may be that you don’t have to cancel it because nobody might be interested in building these. I know a number – Oceanex have bailed out of down at the Illawarra wind farm, and I believe Origin have bailed out up here. Do you know how many companies are actually interested in constructing these given that they’re in deep water?
PETER DUTTON:
I don’t, because again, there’s not transparency around the process that Chris Bowen is running here, unfortunately. I worry that it’s just not commercially viable and the Government is signing the taxpayer up to a lot of money that is going to be wasted ultimately. Part of the problem is that the offshore wind turbine has a lifespan of about 19 or 20 years. It needs to be replaced, at the end of it, it goes into landfill, there’s a lot of oil and maintenance, boats shipping backwards and forwards to maintain the wind turbines, and that’s what makes it very marginal in terms of the economic proposition for companies, because they look at it and say, ‘well, hang on, we’ve got all of this cost and we can only amortise it, we can only spread the cost out over the 19 or 20 years’. Whereas you look at the latest technology of nuclear, it lasts for about 80 years and you can amortise the cost over that period, which is why you end up with 24/7 baseload power to firm up the renewables, but also it’s electricity delivered at a lower cost.
RICHARD KING:
Alright, the big question which, well, you blame the Government actually so far for not releasing the costings. When will we find out what you costings are for these proposed seven nuclear power stations around the country?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Richard, we’ve said that we’ll release the costings next week, which we’ll do, and we’ve put a lot of work into it because it’s a very serious proposition. Nineteen of the 20 top economies in the world have nuclear power or have signed up to nuclear power. Australia is the only one that hasn’t.
The only reason I think the Government at the moment hasn’t supported it is because, frankly, they’re more interested in Green voters in inner city Sydney and Melbourne than they are in places in regional areas and in outer metropolitan areas. That’s the reality.
I think by the costings being released we’ll see the independence of the costings, which will be a key feature because it will show that, yes, there’s an upfront capital cost, but as I say, you can amortise that cost over a longer period of time and we can keep smelters open, we can keep jobs in communities – and obviously coal and gas is going to have a very significant part to play, probably for longer than what Labor admits.
RICHARD KING:
All right. Well, okay, we’ll definitely get the costings next week on nuclear. Many would argue that seven is not going to be anywhere near enough. I mean, people keep pointing to the United States and say there’s 94 nuclear power reactors there that provide a total of 20 per cent of their total energy needs. You said up the front, it’s a combination of renewables, etc., and gas. The previous Government – and you were a part of that – it was all ‘gas, gas, gas’. Are you proposing to build more of these gas peaking plants, which I believe one’s going to be operational here in the Hunter Valley at Kurri Kurri? I think that’s about two years behind schedule and way over cost. Can we expect to see more of those?
PETER DUTTON:
I think we certainly can, and I think we have to, otherwise, we’re not going to have stability in the network. This is what the independent regulator has warned of, and it’s what the Premier warned of only a week ago – that there will be disruption to supply – and manufacturing businesses just can’t operate with machines turning on and off during the day, let alone your own fridge at home or the hospital. We need reliable power and in 2024, it’s unacceptable that we’ve got an electricity grid and network, which is not only the highest cost in the world, but is now becoming unreliable.
So, yes, we do need more gas, and the Government said 12 months ago that, yes, begrudgingly they accept that we need more gas, but before that, the first 18 months of this Government, they did everything they could to vilify gas – and coal, for that matter. But if we’re going to keep the lights on and we’re going to have stability in the network, then we do need reliable baseload power, because on current projections, 90 per cent of baseload power goes out of the system by 2034.
RICHARD KING:
Alright, and given that obviously energy prices are going up at the moment, you keep bringing up and rightly so – the Government in the lead-up to the last federal election were promising a $275 reduction in power bills, well we sort of got that, only thanks to handouts! Do you have any plans that would bring down substantially the price of energy here in Australia?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Richard, just to deal with that issue, the Prime Minister promised on 97 occasions before the last election that your power prices would come down by $275 each year. So, let’s be very frank about it. The Government hasn’t been met that. In fact, power prices on average have gone up by about $1,000. Every Australian, at the moment, I think is in a situation where they’re worse off than they were two-and-a-half years ago. So yes, we want to see lower power prices, which is why we need to get the energy mix right, but we also need to make sure that we bring inflation down so that we can bring interest rates down. I think that’s the most important objective at the moment, because many families have got big mortgages. In some cases, they just can’t afford to buy a house or even rental accommodation and rents go up when mortgages go up as well.
So, we’ve got a bit of a mess – well, a huge mess actually – that Labor’s created over the last two-and-a-half years. Our job as is a job for many Liberal governments, will be to get the economy back on track and make sure that we can help families deal with the pressures that they’re under at the moment.
RICHARD KING:
I did invite the listeners to send in questions and most of this is based on their questions, but one of them is from Wayne who says, ‘Mr Dutton, Israel’s Prime Minister is deemed as a war criminal. The world is turning against him, he’s becoming a pariah. The Palestinians have had their lands eroded, they’ve been subjugated, have been forced to live in deplorable conditions. Food and medicine has been denied them. Innocent old men, women and children are being murdered, so have workers and journalists. If you want peace, then Netanyahu must be removed’. You’re incensed that Penny Wong, on behalf of Australia, voted not with Israel and the United States on this, urging Israel to get out of Gaza in the West Bank. You support Netanyahu, Mr Dutton?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, Richard, we certainly support Israel and we support the Government there because they’re the only democracy in the Middle East, firstly. As Defence Minister, I received intelligence from Israel which saved Australian lives, including the lives of our diggers. We work with Israel as a trusted partner and there has been a bipartisan position to support Israel up until Mr Albanese became Prime Minister, even though before the election he said that he would support Israel. We’ve seen the fire-bombing of a synagogue in Melbourne overnight and we’ve seen the anti-Semitism in our country rise dramatically since October 7. I think it’s deplorable.
Hamas and Hezbollah are terrorist organisations listed in our country and they’re sponsored by Iran, which is a terrorist regime. So, I’m not with the terrorists. I don’t want to see the loss of any life, but as we know, Hezbollah and Hamas have no regard for Palestinian life and even less for Israeli life. They plant and they store their munitions and their weapons under schools and under hospitals and – like any country, are defending its borders and defending its integrity and keeping its people safe – Israel is going to react to a terrorist strike like what happened on October 7, where people were slaughtered, including pregnant women and the rest of it.
What I want in the Middle East is peace. We’re not going to allow that if we have terrorist organisations given support. In our country, the level of anti-Semitism is a national disgrace and we should be doing everything we can to stamp it out because we wouldn’t treat any other person the way that we’re treating the Jewish community at the moment. The anti-Semitism has no place in our society. Racism of any nature should be absolutely abhorred and condemned. That’s how I’d respond to Wayne.
RICHARD KING:
Emissions targets were a hot topic. The previous Trump Administration withdrew from the Paris Agreement. Joe Biden got the USA back into it and Trump said, well, the likelihood is that they’ll once again withdraw from the Paris Agreement. What’s your view on the Paris Agreement, Mr Dutton? Do you have any plans to take Australia out of the Paris Agreement?
PETER DUTTON:
No, we don’t. We’re supporting the net zero by 2050 target. But it’s not a linear, it’s not a straight line achievement to get there in 2050. This is the problem the Government’s got at the moment, Richard. There’s no country in the world that has a renewables-only policy. We’ll see Tomago, we’ll see other heavy industries close, and we’ve had a 300 per cent increase in the number of manufacturing closures in Australia under Labor over the last two-and-a-half years. Those jobs are gone and what’s happening? The big companies are just emerging in Malaysia or Wyoming, somewhere else where they’re paying a third of the electricity costs. We lose the jobs, we lose the economic productivity, and we end up having higher emissions anyway.
So, we need to make sure that we’ve got a realistic arrangement, but I’m not going to sign Australia up to an arrangement where we’re sending families and small businesses broke, which is what Mr Albanese is doing at the moment with his 100 per cent renewables-only policy. We’re going to see disruption, and those manufacturers, as I say, they won’t stay in Australia, they won’t come to Australia if we’ve got an unreliable power system.
Look at what Meta and Apple and Oracle and others are doing at the moment in the United States. Meta’s just announced in the last 24 hours they want a four gigawatt – believe or not – four gigawatts worth of power for their AI and data storage units.
RICHARD KING:
Yes, yep.
PETER DUTTON:
They’re not having those discussions – that should be located in the Hunter. We should be having those discussions with these companies, but they’re not talking to Australia because we have the highest cost of electricity and now an unreliable network. These companies are going to the providers of nuclear power for that energy need and that’s why Australia is being left behind.
RICHARD KING:
Appreciate your time this morning. I hope you have a safe and a happy Christmas, and would you like to make a prediction – the Prime Minister said that Parliament will be coming back early next year – any thoughts on when the election will be called?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, Richard, to you and to all of your listeners, Merry Christmas and a happy New Year. I hope it’s a safe and happy holiday. I hope that people really travel safely on the roads as well this Christmas.
In terms of predictions for next year, the Prime Minister himself, I suspect, probably doesn’t know the election date just yet, but I think we come back and sit in February unless the leadership talk continues in the Labor Party, and if the PM feels that he’s going to be challenged, then I think he’ll go to an election pretty quickly. But all will be revealed after Christmas.
In the meantime, I hope people can have a bit of downtime and I know it’s going to be a tough Christmas for a lot of families. I wish them all the best.
RICHARD KING:
Thank you. Appreciate your time this morning. Safe and a happy Christmas, Peter Dutton, the Opposition Leader.
[ends]