Subjects: Aged care; closure of the Afghanistan Inquiry Report; Labor’s Nature Positive shambles; Elon Musk.
E&OE.
KARL STEFANOVIC:
Good morning, guys. Nice to see you. Billy, to you first up. This is a big deal and might take a little while for us to wrap our heads around it, but it’s long overdue.
BILL SHORTEN:
Yeah. Listen, and it’s been a lot of work by Minister Anika Wells, and congratulations to the Coalition for working with us on this. It’s all about making sure that people in the future in aged care, when they’re getting their funding, they’ve got dignity, got support. The first thing also to say to people trying to wrap their head around the detail, is they can go to a website, they can get each case study they need. But if you’re currently in aged care, there’s no change, it’s a future proposition, and we are going to be supporting in the future 100 per cent of people’s clinical care.
KARL STEFANOVIC:
It’s a good thing both sides are working together on this to too. Pete, will it hold up when the reforms move through Parliament? Or do you anticipate moving for some changes to the legislation?
PETER DUTTON:
Good morning, Karl. Look, we’ve worked with the Government because we think it’s in our national interest to do so. We’ve got an ageing population and we want to make sure that people have dignity in retirement and that they can go into an aged care facility, and for your grandparents, for your parents, you want to know that they’re being taken well cared of and you want to make sure that they’re getting the support that they require, but it costs money to do that.
I think Bill’s important point is one that we really should stress, and that is that people who are in the system now – they’re grandfathered. So, there’s no change that applies to those people. There’s a Senate inquiry that will tease out a lot of the detail and people can have their say in relation to that, but we want to make sure that we’ve got beds being built, because at the moment we just don’t have any infrastructure being built in aged care. We’ve got an ageing population, early onset dementia, etc. and we have to deal with that.
KARL STEFANOVIC:
Still challenges with staffing, but hopefully that is sorted too.
To other news, the Defence Minister has stripped medals from senior members of the military who served in Afghanistan ahead of an investigation into alleged war crimes.
Billy, weren’t those soldiers owed due process?
BILL SHORTEN:
Well, this is part of the response to the Brereton Report. For those people who haven’t been following it closely, Mr Brereton or General [sic] Brereton is a judge, but he also serves as the military investigator into alleged war crimes in Afghanistan.
Absolutely, most men and women who served in Afghanistan did so with great distinction, but the report did uncover some things which failed, I think, the standards the Australian Defence Force set itself. What’s happened is that Richard Marles, the Minister, has written to, we think, less than ten people and said that it’s likely that their medals will be revoked as part of the 139 recommendations we’ve implemented out of 143.
KARL STEFANOVIC:
Yeah, look there’s plenty around today saying they would have liked to have seen due process.
Pete, you’ve been Defence Minister. The message this sends to our servicemen and women is pretty brutal, in part. I’m not sure how it affects morale, but I can’t imagine it’s great. Surely those above mid-tier should have been held responsible?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Karl, it’s not a decision I took as Defence Minister, and I looked at the issue very, very closely.
I think Richard Marles really has done a great disservice here to the Australian Defence Force, when he waits for two-and-a-half years. He sat on this issue and he makes his announcement during the week that the Royal Commission into Veteran Suicide is released, and I think there is an insensitivity there. It’s why he’s copped a lot of criticism from the veterans’ community.
To your point, why is it okay to throw lower rank diggers under the bus, but those who are higher up the chain avoid any scrutiny – and the Chief of the Army, the Chief of the Defence Force and people in between those ranks and where Richard Marles has acted here – why is there no accountability there? I think that’s why the average digger is asking a lot of questions, as you rightly point.
KARL STEFANOVIC:
And Billy, look, fortunately we don’t have to go to war, but our soldiers do and they know they have to do the right thing, they’re so well trained. You can’t have soldiers, I don’t think, second guessing themselves when they’re making life and death decisions, right?
BILL SHORTEN:
I see what you’re saying, Karl, we’re not there in the heat of the moment, in the smoke and the tension and trying to keep your mates safe and carry out a mission in a very difficult sort of war zone, so I can see that point. But the issue here, that the Brereton Report investigated alleged war crimes, and I also think that report did find examples certainly to the Investigator’s satisfaction, where the standards that we uphold and believe and go to war for hadn’t been maintained. But, you know, I’ve not served…in a war zone, I understand that people don’t want to feel second guessed. This is not quite that scenario, I don’t believe.
KARL STEFANOVIC:
Alright, let’s wait and see.
Billy, it must seriously irk you, this potential dirty, dirty deal with the Greens over environment laws. Is Labor trying to kill new mining projects?
BILL SHORTEN:
No. Listen, I’m not a fan of the Greens. That’s just a matter of record and their conduct on the NDIS, and a range of other matters is…
KARL STEFANOVIC:
But you’re trying to do a deal with them? Come on!
PETER DUTTON:
You take their preferences, Bill…
BILL SHORTEN:
Oh listen, we’ve done a deal with Pete. That doesn’t mean I always agree with him.
PETER DUTTON:
…at every election! You only get elected off Greens preferences!
KARL STEFANOVIC:
Oh!
BILL SHORTEN:
Petey, Petey, Pete. Petey, Petey, Petey! You know that periodically the Liberals preference the Greens. Half the reason Adam Bandt is in Parliament is because of you guys. So, you know, I know you think you wear a pair of angel wings and play a lyre in heaven and you know, you’re always right and we’re always bad, but getting to the issue of the Greens, and mining, Minister Plibersek’s approved 40 mines and she’s knocked back one. So, let’s not start you know clutching the pearls too much here about the Greens are going to be running BHP and Rio Tinto that’s not likely any time soon, we just want to get the balance right between jobs.
KARL STEFANOVIC:
Alright. Quickly, Pete?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, Karl, they’re killing off the mining industry. The mining sector paid $350 billion of tax in the last ten years. That’s more than every other sector put together. We don’t pay for schools, we don’t do road upgrades, we don’t provide new tunnels without that tax. We’ve got huge demand for our resources. We haven’t got the phone that we use without mining because we need all of those essential minerals and elements and why Labor would want to kill that off is beyond me.
KARL STEFANOVIC:
Alright, Bill. Just finally, the crackdown on social media laws…
BILL SHORTEN:
You know we’re not killing off mining.
KARL STEFANOVIC:
…I’ve just going to move on. Elon Musk reckons, Bill, that you’re a fascist. Well, not you personally, but your Government. Is that true?
BILL SHORTEN:
Well Elon Musk can – well, that’s a little hard considering Pete said that I’m a communist with the Greens – it’s just hard to be Labor some days. Elon Musk has had more positions on free speech than the Kama Sutra. You know, when it’s in his commercial interests, he is the champion of free speech and when he doesn’t like it, he is going to shut it all down. He’s a billionaire with a tech platform.
KARL STEFANOVIC:
You’re lugged in with this too – Peter fascist Dutton. What’s your response to Elon? Go on, send him something!
PETER DUTTON:
I just like the contrast from this week to last week where we were singing Bill’s praises, and now he’s a fascist!…
BILL SHORTEN:
I knew it wouldn’t last!
PETER DUTTON:
…I just think it’s way too early for any Australian to hear Bill Shorten talking about Kama Sutra on breakfast TV! It’s too much – there are red lines! You know, I’m happy to do this programme, but there are red lines!
KARL STEFANOVIC:
Alright. We’ll leave it there. We’ll leave it there. We’ll take a break. We’re getting a bit hot!
BILL SHORTEN:
There are red lines, alright! This is children’s time!
SARAH ABO:
That’s going in all kinds of directions, Karlos. Thank you.
[ends]