Subjects: Conflict in the Middle East; doubt over the impact of Australia’s foreign aid in Gaza; Coles and Woolies ripping off Australians; Labor’s energy policy shambles; nuclear energy; AUKUS; Labor’s housing crisis and Big Australia migration policy; Labor’s immigration and border security crisis; AFL Grand Final.
E&OE.
CHRIS KENNY:
Let’s go to the Opposition Leader Peter Dutton, now. I spoke with him earlier and asked him whether all the pressure should be on Iran as the malevolent player in the region.
PETER DUTTON:
Without question, Chris, that is exactly right. I think every decent minded person – whether leader of a western country or anybody across the world, frankly, should be looking on in the Middle East at the moment, worried about some of the commentary.
Hamas is a listed terrorist organisation, Hezbollah, the Houthis – all sponsored by Iran. All of these organisations, all of these movements, have one outcome in mind, and that is to destroy Israel and to drive people from the River to the Sea, as they say. The fact that people wouldn’t be standing with Israel and would be equivocating or somehow giving comfort in their language to the Iranians, is beyond anyone’s comprehension.
So, I do think we need a reality check and we need to provide every support we can to Israel to make sure that peace can prevail in the Middle East, because if it continues on the path it is at the moment, I think the world is in a very precarious position.
CHRIS KENNY:
Now we all fear for and care for innocent civilians caught up in all of this, but the Federal Government’s announced another $10 million through UN charities to help in Gaza. Should we be worried about this, given we’ve had the revelations of UN organisations in Gaza being infiltrated by Hamas operatives?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Chris, I just think Australians – who are very generous and big hearted – want to know that aid money is going to provide support to the people that it was intended to help. If we’re talking about a programme that diverts money into the hands of terrorist groups, or away from those who are in need of food and medical supplies, etc., then there should be full transparency here.
The onus is on Penny Wong and Anthony Albanese to explain why the UN organisation has legitimacy in distributing this aid, when we know that, as you point out, there have been findings in relation to some of the workers within this particular programme who have been involved in terrorist activity or alleged to have been involved in that.
So, I just don’t think there’s any transparency or honesty from the Government here, and there certainly needs to be.
CHRIS KENNY:
Just related to Islamist terrorism, but back in our region, the new leader of Jemaah Islamiyah – the Islamist terror group responsible for the Bali bombings, among other atrocities – well, their new leader has apologised for these terror attacks, said that peace is the way forward and promises to disband Jemaah Islamiyah. Especially given the tensions in the Middle East at the moment, the warfare in the Middle East, can we take him at his word?
PETER DUTTON:
Well only time will tell. Let’s hope that he’s sincere.
I’m in Ipswich today and I’ve been at the RSL Sub Branch with veterans of the Middle Eastern campaigns, of peacekeeping missions, and when you look at the work that they did and the work frankly that we’re still doing today with Indonesia, with the Philippines and others to try and defeat the scourge of terrorism, we should tip our hat every day, to be honest, to the men and women who wear our national uniform, they keep us safe, and there is a lot of activity that’s taken place in Indonesia over a long period of time where we’ve provided support to the police and the intelligence agencies to quash a number of potential attacks on Australian interests, tourists – not just in Indonesia, but across the region, Chris.
So, let’s hope it’s sincere. It was certainly a barbaric organisation that took the lives of many people, including Australians, and we should never forget that.
CHRIS KENNY:
Yes, indeed. Well said. I was at an event with you last week where former AFP Commissioner Mick Keelty was present as well, and the AFP have been so important in that role as well.
Let’s bring it back to the domestic economy and the cost of living crisis, inflation and interest rates. There’s a report out today from EY that says the combined interest rate bill of State Governments and Federal Governments debt is $44 billion annually, equivalent to the national Defence budget, or the NDIS budget. Two points on this: this level of debt, is it unsustainable? And also, isn’t the level of government spending, it’s fuelling, obviously increasing the inflation rate and adding to our interest rate problem?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Chris, and the other the other consideration, of course, is that when you compare Australia to comparable economies in the US, the UK, New Zealand, Canada – interest rates have already started to come down there. When the Reserve Bank Governor here issues a warning to the Prime Minister and to the Treasurer that the reckless spending has to stop, it has to stop because it’s fuelling inflation and Australians at the moment are doing it tough.
Cost of living pressures on families, their mortgage repayments that have gone up on 12 occasions under this Government. It’s all as a result of bad policies of the Albanese Government. The Prime Minister spent the first 16 months as Prime Minister obsessed with the Voice and he should have been making decisions in the first couple of budgets that set us up to deal with the realities that we knew were coming in relation to the inflation threat and what that means for the economy. But at a time when the Reserve Bank Governor is saying ‘spend less’, as you point out, the State Governments and the Albanese Government are spending more and more and that’s what’s keeping interest rates higher for longer.
CHRIS KENNY:
Well, Anthony Albanese was quick yesterday to suggest that price fiddling by the supermarkets could be helping to push up inflation, yet he seems to have a blind spot when it comes to government spending having exactly the same impact.
On the supermarkets and the Government’s approach, do you think that their code of conduct is going to be tough enough, or are you still insisting that there should be the power for divestiture of the supermarket giants – a threat, I suppose, hanging over them, a more serious threat – to make sure that they do the right thing when it comes to price and transparency?
PETER DUTTON:
Chris, I just think Coles and Woolies have got it all over the Prime Minister. I think they see him as most Australians do, and that is weak and unable to make a tough decision. The Prime Minister has been sitting on a report that he received from Craig Emerson about what code of conduct should be put in place. For months and months and months and months nothing’s happened. It’s like the gambling reforms, it’s like everything this Government does, they promise a review, they seek the advice of a consultant. The job of the Prime Minister is to make decisions in our country’s best interests, and this Prime Minister seems to be incapable of doing that.
So, do I think that the Prime Minister has the measure, the ability, the backbone, the fortitude, to deal with Coles and Woolies? No, I don’t. I think it’s why Coles and Woolies are walking all over the Prime Minister at the moment.
A Government I lead will make sure that Coles and Woolies are profitable, but that they’re delivering the best possible outcome for their customers. I don’t want to see them screwing over customers, or farmers, or suppliers and I want to champion small business. I want to make sure that we have an economy that’s working for people and I want to make sure that people aren’t being ripped off. It appears that Coles and Woolies have a case to answer here, and let’s see what evidence is produced and what the ACCC can do. But I just don’t think anybody in that position, frankly – a position of power across the business community – has any respect for the Prime Minister at the moment at all.
CHRIS KENNY:
Peter Dutton there on the economy and cost of living. I’ve got more from him coming up later in the program where he talks about energy issues, our energy crisis in this country and also immigration. So stick around for that.
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CHRIS KENNY:
Let’s get back to my chat with the Opposition Leader.
One of the big areas where Governments should be helping us on cost of living, is of course electricity prices. Labor promised to cut them, but has forced them ever upwards. Yet Labor keeps demanding to know how much the Coalition’s nuclear energy plan will cost. I mean, how much is Labor’s plan costing while it’s making everything worse?
I asked Peter Dutton if he knew how much the current transition to renewables, plus storage is expected to cost.
PETER DUTTON:
Chris, there are two figures that are floating around at the moment, both put out by credible commentators and observers and experts in this area. They price the Government’s energy plan at between $1.2 and $1.5 trillion. That money is not going to be paid for by anybody other than the taxpayers, by people who have a bill that’s continuing to go up.
It’s not just families, it’s not just your household electricity bill that’s going through the roof under this Government; it’s also the small business, it’s the farmer, it’s the local cafe with a cold room out the back. It’s an unbelievable situation that the Government’s presiding over at the moment because the energy regulator is saying that under Labor’s renewables only plan, we’re going to see a disruption to supply – so blackouts and brownouts – and the price is going to continue to escalate year-on-year.
When the PM is out there saying, ‘oh look, you know, the wind’s free and the sun’s free’, well, he forgets to tell you that they’re proposing 28,000km of new poles and wires. All of that cost is going to be passed on to consumers.
Our argument is that with nuclear, you’ve got a zero emissions technology, you’ve got a constant 24/7 power source, you have cheaper electricity – evidenced elsewhere in the world where there is nuclear energy. In Ontario, people are paying a third of the cost of electricity that we are here, and you can amortise that cost over a 60 to 80 year plus period. The wind turbines need to be replaced three or four times in the lifespan of a nuclear reactor.
So, I just think again, we need to be realistic about our country’s needs. No economy – no economy can function properly without secure energy and without affordable energy. And at the moment, Mr Albanese’s policy of renewables only is just going to continue to drive up the price of electricity and gas.
CHRIS KENNY:
Yeah. Now, I know under your plan, the Government would fund nuclear power plants. There’s nothing particularly unusual about that. We’ve got the Government currently funding Snowy 2.0 and also funding a gas generation plant in the Hunter, plus funding all sorts of other subsidies. But my question is whether that’s necessary?
When you look at Microsoft, for instance, now underwriting the reopening of the Three Mile Island nuclear power plant in Pennsylvania and other private investors funding nuclear developments around the world, is there the possibility that we could get private money funding nuclear power plants in this country?
I look at one of the biggest energy uses in mining, BHP at Roxby Downs, where they mine uranium. They could have a nuclear plant in the iron triangle funding their project, their mining, their processing, as well as the feeding into the national electricity grid.
PETER DUTTON:
Well Chris, I think that’s a proposal that Premier Malinauskas would be very open to in South Australia. Obviously there’s no concerns about safety because the Labor Government, federally, and at a state level, they’ve signed up to AUKUS – the nuclear propelled submarine. If you’ve got submariners sleeping on the submarine alongside the nuclear reactor, well, clearly you don’t have any concerns about safety.
It’s a good point that you make in terms of uranium. We have the biggest deposits of uranium in the world. There is huge demand and growing demand because of the number of countries taking up the use of nuclear energy now. So, there is a huge export opportunity for us. But if we want to bring prices down in our country, there is an opportunity for us to do that with nuclear power.
In terms of the ownership model, it’s not just about the capital cost, but it’s also about creating an asset for the Commonwealth, and it’s also about giving assurances on safety and the regulation around maintenance, etc. for the public. That’s been an important part of the feedback that we’ve got as we’ve spoken to people – particularly in those communities which would be host communities.
When you look at the international experience, Chris, you’ve got of the top 20 economies around the world – the biggest economies – 19 of them have nuclear power, or have expressed an interest in, or signed up to nuclear power as part of their system. Australia is the only country that hasn’t done that.
The Labour Party in the UK, in France, in the United States all completely signed up to nuclear, and yet we’ve got this juvenile, weak approach by Prime Minister Albanese and Chris Bowen and Jim Chalmers who say it can’t happen in our country. It just doesn’t make any sense.
When 90 per cent of the 24/7 power comes out of the system by 2034, you need to have reliable baseload power. At the moment, the Government doesn’t have that, which is why prices are going up, it’s why the Prime Minister can’t deliver on his promise of $275 reduction in people’s electricity prices and it’s why we’ve seen a threefold increase of manufacturing businesses in Australia over the last two years under this Government.
CHRIS KENNY:
You’ve been generous with your time, Peter Dutton. Just one final question, if I may – immigration is a problem in the country, we’ve got record levels, far higher than Labor said it would be. They’ve admitted it’s a problem, they’re saying they want to halve the immigration rate, but they’re not doing that. How can that be the case? Why can’t they actually bring down the rate of immigration? They’re issuing the visas. And what would you do? What would you do to make sure you could bring the immigration rate down to a sustainable level, quickly?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Chris, I think you should always look at what people do as opposed to what they say in politics. The Prime Minister and Labor always promise that they’ll have strong border protections, they’ll have Operation Sovereign Borders, as the Coalition has, they’ll have the same visa cancellation regime as a Coalition Government – it never happens. We’ve got boats that have been turned back at the moment. Let’s hope that they continue to be turned back. Some are getting through without the Government even knowing anything about them. We know that the criminals that they’re releasing into the community are people who have committed very serious crimes against Australian citizens. That’s sending all the wrong messages.
We should be proud of our country, we live in the best country in the world and if we don’t stand up for our values and our rights, then we’ll be taken advantage of. That’s what’s happening in part of the migration programme at the moment, where criminals know that they can commit criminal acts and not be deported. It also turns out that international students are claiming protection when they’re here, so there are integrity issues. I think the Government’s lost control of the migration programme.
Over a five year period, they’re bringing in 1.6 million people – a population the size of Adelaide and there’s been no planning for it. The Prime Minister didn’t say anything about this before the election, that he would have the biggest migration intake in our country’s history. Over the last two years, 924,000 people have come in, but only 300,000 homes have been built. It’s no wonder that they’ve created a housing crisis.
So, we will get the migration programme back under control and we will deport people who commit crimes against Australian citizens and we’ll restore integrity to our migration programme, which is what I did as Home Affairs Minister and as Minister for Immigration and Border Protection. We know how to do it and we will do it again. We’ll clean up Labor’s mess, which is always the responsibility of a Liberal Government.
CHRIS KENNY:
Peter Dutton, you’ve got a busy week ahead, but are you going to get to The G to back the Brisbane Lions on Saturday?
PETER DUTTON:
Mate, I will be there with bells on. I was a bit devastated last year, but Sydney’s a great team, they’ll be hard to beat on the weekend, but the Lions have snatched a few games that they probably shouldn’t have, so they’ll have that drive and that tenacity that you would expect from a great team. So hopefully we can still be friends after Saturday.
CHRIS KENNY:
Yeah, I might see you there. It’s going to be a cracking game. Thanks for joining us, Peter.
PETER DUTTON:
Thanks, mate. Thank you.
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